TYRONEEZEKIEL Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 I made a sodium chloride solution and used a 9volt battery to electrolize the copper attached to the ends. My solution turned yellow like orange juice and I realized that it is the sodium making sodium hydroxide. Is this just a fail method, or could I use a different salt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankRizzo Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Yes, it's a fail method. The reaction won't produce any specific products since there are no reaction products that will leave the solution. You'll end up with a mixture of sodium chloride, sodium hydroxide, copper chloride, copper oxide, and copper hydroxide. A better solution is to use hardware store muriatic acid (HCl) to dissolve your copper wire into solution. To speed the process, use a bit of hydrogen peroxide as well. This also has the advantage in that you won't have sodium contamination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TYRONEEZEKIEL Posted April 9, 2009 Author Share Posted April 9, 2009 (edited) Ok. I also did just that earlier today. I got piping hot copper pipe in a peroxide and hcl solution. It seems to work just right so far, I just wanted to dabble in electrolysis :edit: also isn't copper not soluble in hcl since it's a noble metal? Isn't the peroxide necessary? Edited April 9, 2009 by TYRONEEZEKIEL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_au Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 I got piping hot copper pipe in a peroxide and hcl solution. Be careful adding heated metal to liquid, it could boil and spit acid everywhere.I don't think the reaction would need to be heated to work so it might be a better idea to leave it at room temperature, or heat the solution itself rather than the metal. :edit: also isn't copper not soluble in hcl since it's a noble metal? Isn't the peroxide necessary? You are right that copper doesn't react with HCl directly, but copper isn't a noble metal so it will form copper oxide (which will react with HCl) naturally (albeit slowly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TYRONEEZEKIEL Posted April 9, 2009 Author Share Posted April 9, 2009 Normally I do heat the solution over the metal, I just figured odd speed it up a bit this time. I also dipped it in slowly letting the bubbling subside before lowering it in the solution. Also, do I just let the stuff evaporate, or is there a quicker way to yield? I would rather do it the right way, so I don't want to do anything to corrupt to salt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 If you let it evaporate you're going to have a lot of water chemically bound to your salt, and a lot of acid fumes around. Why do you want it anyway? It doesn't have very many pyro uses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 In my experience Copper metal dissolves in HCl perfectly well... I do that before dumping Zn dust in to get a lovely red Cu metal ppt, and while I'm sure adding Hydrogen peroxide speeds it up (as well as creating Copper oxychloride??) I've never done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarezWally Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 HCl alone will not dissolve copper, adding H2O2 oxidises the surface of the copper*, the resulting copper oxide then forms copper chloride. *I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miech Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 That's correct. HCl does not react with copper metal, but it does with its oxide. H2O2 with any acid is a very strong oxidizer, which can oxidise elemental copper. The H2O2 isn't as much as a cathalyst, it does react an is consumed by the reaction. Simplified you get this:Cu + H2O2 + 2HCl --> CuO + H2O + 2HCl --> CuCl2 + 2 H2O Take care to start with a small batch. I'm regulary etching PCB boards with H2O2/HCl solution, and it will heat up a lot and will give a lot of HCl fumes. I'd recommend doing this experiment outside, on a place where neither copper stains nor H2O2 stains matter. Take care not to spill any fluid on your fingers or cloathing, it will bleach it almost instantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 It will also form small amounts of HClO (think bleach), Cl2, and ClO2. As for why you'd be doing anything like this without gloves or old clothes/labcoat is beyond me though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonny Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 You can also make copper chloride by dissolving copper carbonate into HCl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 It would also be helpful if you told us if you wanted copper (I) or copper (II) chloride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TYRONEEZEKIEL Posted April 10, 2009 Author Share Posted April 10, 2009 Copper II chloride I'm pretty sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyco_1322 Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Just skip a step and add some perfectly good and usable copper oxide to HCl. I always made copper chloride by letting some copper set in HCl, no H2O2, then after its turns to a dark solution, boil it dry. I'm sure that's a horrible method with crappy yields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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