Synthesizing chems at home

[Ventsi]

Hello

anyone have ideas on home made chems.

 

im talking somewhat exotic stuff

can be Electrolysis,Synthesis etc.

 

I am looking to making metal salts

and perhaps fancy oxidisers.

 

nothing too out of the ordinary.

stuff one could do in their backyard or garage with out

expensive labware

 

Thanks.

[Steps]

Barium & Strontium Nitrate are easy enough to make if there not already available.

 

I got 5 kilos of each respective carbonate, also got some lovely fuming white nitric acid that i picked up from chem supplier (no questions asked ). Then its basically Dissolve carboanates in acid. Filter Dry out.

 

I guess its not easy for some people to get nitric acid, apparently theres a method where people dissolve the carbonates in vinegar then through double displacement with potassium nitrate. Not sure of quality of the product from this though.

 

This isn't even in the right thread... Just cause you don't know where it's supposed to go doesnt mean its random .

 

Theres plenty of articles on this stuff and instead of being spoonfed you should look through the forum?

Edited February 14, 2009 by TheLummox

[Richtee]

Hello

anyone have ideas on home made chems.

Search user name Swede. And grab yer chem reference book. Assuming you have one.

[TheSidewinder]

Read his Blog, too. Many of his entried were featured, and rightly so. A complete tutorial on how to make KClO3 and KClO4.

[andyboy]

Barium Nitrate without nitric:

 

BaCO₃ + 2HCl -> BaCl₂ +CO₂ + H₂O

 

BaCl₂ + 2KNO₃ -> Ba(NO₃)₂ + 2KCl

 

Correct me if I'm wrong though since I might very well be.

[Miech]

The latter is an equibrilium reaction (don't know if that is the right word). That means you get a solution of K⁺, Ba²⁺, Cl^- and NO₃^-. Some barium nitrate will percipitate, but you need to recrystallize it several times to get rid of the chloride and potassium. Doing a percipitation reaction with silver or lead nitrate will work, but is more expensive than using nitric as far as I know.

 

A very interesting (however dangerous) thing you can do with the barium carbonate is making a nearly boiling solution of it and bubble chlorine gas through it. This yields barium chlorate, however not pure enough to be used immediately so recrystalizing is recommended. Care must be taken to not ever breath in chlorine, and some small stones or glass pearls must be added to the hot solution to prevent the fluid from spitting out of the reaction tube. Hot chlorate is a very nasty oxidizer by the way, so be very carefull.

 

An interesting oxidizer is copper(II) perchlorate. It is more stable than could be expected on base of the metal ion, because it forms ligands. I expect it to be able to make very nice blue flames with rosin or similar stuff.

 

Edit: I forgot a "/" in the BBCode.

Edited February 15, 2009 by Miech

[Swede]

Thanks for the kind words. I must say though that my experience so far has been very limited to just those oxidizers with a few excursions. Tentacles seems to know more about turning OTC stuff, fertilizers and the like, into more desirable compounds than most. I think you need to come up with a specific goal; name the salt or oxidizer you're after, and I'm sure you'll get plenty of information.

 

Being able to create acids, salts, reagents and oxidizers that are otherwise unobtainable is a very valuable skill.

[Ventsi]

Thanks for the kind words. I must say though that my experience so far has been very limited to just those oxidizers with a few excursions. Tentacles seems to know more about turning OTC stuff, fertilizers and the like, into more desirable compounds than most. I think you need to come up with a specific goal; name the salt or oxidizer you're after, and I'm sure you'll get plenty of information.

 

Being able to create acids, salts, reagents and oxidizers that are otherwise unobtainable is a very valuable skill.

 

 

Thank you Swede

I know can to make the more basic stuff [CuCl2,CuO ,CuSO4,NC,etc.]

 

I am looking on ways to make Potassium Carbonate,Potassium Chlorate[KClO3],LampBlack?, and Lithium Chloride?

I know that KClO3 is the main ingridient in matches but getting it that way is complete nonsence!!

[Mumbles]

Short of Potassium chlorate, most of those are starting materials.

 

Potassium Carbonate is commonly sold as "Potash" in gardening shops. Check the label though. I've been tricked into buying KCl before.

 

Lampblack can be made by burning things like turpentine under a glass bowl, or with an oxygen poor acetylene flame. However, you will become very dirty, and it will be nearly impossible to collect a useful amount.

 

Lithium chloride is made by neutralizing LiCO3 with HCl. LiCO3 is a common additive to ceramics and glazes. It's found at most reputable pottery suppliers. You could also get a clinical diagnosis of depression, and extract it from your medicine.

 

 

 

I'd be wary about using Copper Perchlorate. It's a primary explosive first and foremost. It's also mighty hygroscopic.

[andyboy]

"Lampblack" can be made at home by the burning of Styrofoam under a metalplate, the soot is then scraped of and collected. It's not really like the commercially found lampblack but it works in some applications.

 

Edit, well off course my GF came in and disturbed me when writing this so now it just looks like I copied Mumbles post.

Edited February 15, 2009 by andyboy

[Ventsi]

I'd be wary about using Copper Perchlorate. It's a primary explosive first and foremost. It's also mighty hygroscopic.

 

Thanks ,I'll give Lampblack a try

 

 

Where did you get the impression that i wanted Copper Perchlorate[CuClO4]? =/

I never even mentioned it.

[andyboy]

Thanks ,I'll give Lampblack a try

 

 

Where did you get the impression that i wanted Copper Perchlorate[CuClO4]? =/

I never even mentioned it.

 

Miech talked about Copper Perchlorate and Mumbles warned everyone about using it.

[Swede]

Hint: Online pottery stores have CHEAP chemicals, will ship huge quantities no questions asked, in the worst packing imaginable. Each online pottery store, with a few rare exceptions, seems to have the same list of chems... they all find traditional use in ceramics. You'll find lots of carbonates, almost no nitrates, a few oxides. When I needed a few grams of NaF for some experiments, the only place that would sell it to me without insane hazmat shipping charges was a pottery store. 10 pounds of a pretty toxic salt tossed into two ziplocs and put in a box!

 

Unfortunately, what I was really after was lead salts for my anode experiments, and I found not one lead salt at any online ceramics supplier... all the reputable ones have banned Pb from their stores, and probably rightly so. But you can still find many of the various lead oxides, if you need them, from assay supply companies, also online.

Edited February 16, 2009 by Swede

[tentacles]

Swede, there are a couple ceramics places that still sell lead tetraoxide, about $6/lb. Clay Art center has a good price on it, they also sell a couple of nitrate salts - K and Na I believe. Unfortunately red lead is of questionable use to us, without (possibly) decomposing it to PbO first.

[Ventsi]

Hint: Online pottery stores have CHEAP chemicals,

 

 

 

 

Swede ,you mind sharing a few names?

[Swede]

Swede ,you mind sharing a few names?

 

 

http://www.seattlepotterysupply.com/

 

http://clayartcenter.net/store/customer/home.php?cat=680

 

http://www.axner.com/axner/materials/other...ials.php#calnit

 

http://www.sheffield-pottery.com/RAW-MATER...ICALS-s/286.htm

 

Seattle is probably the best in terms of selection, and have KNO3. Google "Ceramics supply" and you'll get lots of hits. They also have good stuff like sieves and tools that can be used for Pyro.

 

Tentacles, I've REALLY scoured the web for lead salts. The good prices at chemsavers AREN'T anymore for the nitrate. For litharge, one thing I noticed was that it took a lot of litharge to maintain pH, and the cheapest I've found is assay litharge, such as:

http://www.legend-reno.com/minesupply/m56.htm

 

There's the occasional 500 gram lead nitrate on eBay for $10, but it takes a lot more than 500 grams to make a big bath. Same with eBay litharge.

Edited February 16, 2009 by Swede

[asilentbob]

With regards to the lead nitrate I'd recommend asking around passfire or something... as I'm sure there are a few old farts there with tons of "exotic" chems that they can no longer justify using... I wouldn't be surprised if one of those guys had 5 or 10lbs of lead nitrate just sitting around.

 

In regards to the topic... most pyrotechnic salts of interest can be made after taking highschool chemistry and doing a bit of extra reading to make sure that the reactions will or will not work. I really don't understand why you would ask... as most of the salts of interest aside from chlorates and perchlorates can be purchased locally cheap... and most anything else just involves a double displacement that has been planned to stay free from sodium cations and leave one species less soluble than the other... Or produce an unstable species that can be decomposed completely by heat.

 

Unless its something weird like bismuth subcarbonate... BUT after flipping through a good inorganic chemistry book .pdf from SMDB or such you will find a few routes to it too...

[Swede]

While this IS true in many cases, one notable exception to this is Continental Clay.

 

Their packaging was plastic bag inside of labeled paper bag, both taped shut separately. They have a good inventory and fair pricing, IMHO. I have no affiliation w/them except as a satisfied customer.

 

Excellent, I took a look at their web site, and it is a goodie.

 

I often wonder about the workers at those places. Imagine a 55 gallon fiber drum full of Sodium Fluoride... I've got this image of the top off of the drum, a big plastic scoop in there, and paper bags or ziplocs nearby, to be filled for the individual orders. They ram the scoop into the NaF... dust flies, gets inhaled, etc. The cobalts and chromiums, too, find a lot of use in ceramics. I just hope they are aware of the dangers involved.

 

I bought 10 pounds of fine grog from one of them, and compared to Skylighters, it is 100X cheaper, AND it is uniformly sized. Bentonite clays too, dirt cheap.

 

Continental has CMC Gum. It is Sodium Carboxymethyl Cellulose Gum, and made me think of red gum. But $19/pound... too steep. Plus, being a sodium salt, you don't want to use it due to the Na for stars and such, but it might work as a BP binder for pressing, or rocketry. Interesting stuff. They have lithium carbonate for $8.44 per pound, nickel carbonate for $37. Black Nickel Oxide, $25. Strontium carbonate, $6. Tin Oxide, $31. ZrSiO4, $3! I don't know what you'd do with zirconium silicate, but it's interesting stuff, and compared to a chemical supply, vastly cheaper.

[asilentbob]

IMHO double ziplocked, or ziplock in a plastic tub whose lip seal has been taped around is the way to go. And heavy ziplock at that.

 

I shouldn't have ANY leaks in transport.

[Mumbles]

One unnamed ceramic source delivers in thin plastic bags inside of a paper lunch sack that is stapled shut. They stapled through my Red Lead. That was exciting.

 

It beat another place that taped their thin plastic bags shut. They tore every time you tried to open it. I just accepted this, cut off a corner and poured it into a plastic tub from then on.

[asilentbob]

I had a similar red lead experience buying a lot of ceramic chems someone didn't want anymore off ebay.

 

I was pissed. The stuff was everywhere.

[Ventsi]

I checked out Seatlle and it looks like they have a good selection.

and I am sure they dont want a ATF license.

 

thanks Swede.

[asilentbob]

Well you generally don't need a BATFE license unless your buying bulk oxidizers or over 2lbs of VERY fine aluminum... Or in some cases pre-made stars, shells, inserts, e-matches, etc.

[Ventsi]

Well you generally don't need a BATFE license unless your buying bulk oxidizers or over 2lbs of VERY fine aluminum... Or in some cases pre-made stars, shells, inserts, e-matches, etc.

 

 

Haha , i know that i was only kidding.

But i would love to buy some REAL E-matches,instead of using the ones that Estes sell.

[Mumbles]

You don't legally need a licence for fine Al, bulk oxidisers or any of that. It's all supplier imposed, not legal requirements. I've purchased multiple drums of Perchlorate, Indian Blackhead, and other things with nothing more than my drivers licence to prove I was 18.