mike_au Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 I have managed to get a small quantity of PVC powder from a local pipe manufacturer, I don't have any of the other chemicals that it is normally used with yet, but I am planning on trying to get some more just in case. But first, I want to find out if it has had fire retardants/UV stabilizers/etc added that might affect it's usefulness. What is the best way to test if it is actually suitable for pyro use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tentacles Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Try it in a known working formula... by the way, PVC IS a flame retardant.. that's part of why it works so well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_au Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 Try it in a known working formula. That's the problem, I don't have enough of the other ingredients. Everything I have found that uses PVC needs chlorates, perchlorates and/or non-potassium nitrates. I could probably track down some carbonates, but I haven't got a source for anything fancy. Don't they still add extra flame retardants to the mix? Isn't that why grinding up PVC pipe doesn't work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrKoNaLeaSh1010 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 They dont purposely add fire retardants to pvc pipe they just add chemicals and binders that help it mold together and stay together. Also why are you so worried about your pvc when you have no other chems to utilize it. You are going to need kclo3 or kclo4 and some sort of coloring agent such as a barium strontium or copper salt. You can most likely find barium and strontium carbonates at a local pottery store but you are still going to have to order kclo3/kclo4 or make a chlorate cell and produce your own kclo3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_au Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 Also why are you so worried about your pvc when you have no other chems to utilize it. A few other people in my area have expressed an interest in getting some. The place I got it from doesn't sell it, they just happened to be nice enough to let a mate of mine go grab some from their workshop. I imagine if half a dozen people wander in asking for small amounts they will soon stop being so nice about it and tell us all to p**s off, so I was thinking of trying to organise a large-ish amount that I could use when I do have the other chems and that I could supply to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tentacles Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Most places I've heard of that make PVC pipe will let you have floor sweepings free - when they unload the hopper cars (rail cars) or hopper trucks, that shit spills all over the ground - they can't contaminate their product with floor sweepings so they would normally throw out that portion. Frank has a full 5 gallon bucket of good clean sweepings from a pipe plant. It could possibly stand a session in a ball mill, but it does work in the granular form it's in. My guess is what they gave you was the normal PVC resin that is the basis of PVC products - fillers and plasticizers are then added to produce the stiffness, chemical resistance, etc as required. This is slightly off topic, but I wonder how CPVC resin would do as a chlorine donor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankRizzo Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Yeah, the resin I got from that plant is virgin stuff. It's an emulsion grade PVC powder, the finest that is mfg commercially for making pipe products. Any finer material would be made specifically as a pyro-material. As Tentacles said, as they're unloading the rail cars, the shit gets everywhere. I don't know about the letting you have it for free part, but my buddy just happened to be the overnight process control supervisor so he smuggled out a bucket for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elstevo Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 (edited) Ello there Mike, Iv been looking for cheap carbonates... Im not sure around where you live, but everywhere around sells barium carbonates for $3-4 bucks a kilo aswell as strontium carbonates for around $20/kg ish, can also grab copper oxide for $20ish/kilo. Just look through phonebook and look for ceramic stores, then u can truly test the awsomeness of ur pvc on some coloured stars, and itll be satifying. I dono if thats what you meant by testing it. Edited October 7, 2008 by elstevo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Theoretically CPVC and Saran resin should be chemically pretty similar. They are made by different processes, but the end product should have similar chemical make up, possibly with a bit lower chlorine content than pure saran. I have some values on the chlorine content of CPVC, and IIRC, it ends up about 10-20% from full conversion. I would have to look it up though. IE, if PVC has 60% chlorine content, and Saran has 70% chlorine content, CPVC would end up around 68 or 69% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elstevo Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 I thought about using CPVC, i just dont have any perch and can't be bothered running a cell for a week. Apparently some dude on a british forum made a killer green with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankRizzo Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Steveo, It takes you a week to catch a perch? Dude, you really need to change your bait. I catch 'em off the dock just by bouncing the hook in the water. p.s.: If you're going to shorten perchlorate, use "perc". It's more universal in the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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