Fireballs, liquid

[qwezxc12]

how much 4:1 CuO:Al  do you guys for 1 gallon of petrol?

 

I presume that it would be around 100g like flash, but would just like to see what you find works best.

 

I need to get some CuO!

Sounds about right...I used 30g of CuO/Al thermite to lift a 1l zip-lock bag of of gas from a coffee can in this one:

http://www.apcforum.net/files/qwezxc12CuOfireball.jpg

 

I used 90g for a 1 gal. version...and it split the container in half made a hell of a fire-ball, though.

[Zmuro]

Fireball, made by may friend and his co-workers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbV-peVsNyo

[mormanman]

Sorry about that I meant to post a video. Will this Bp work.

.

[frogy]

It's definitely fast, but try a smaller pile like 1-5 grams and people can refer it to their powder... 1 gram should be good

[Mumbles]

Ok, really now. We can't hold your hand through everything. Your powder is fine. Go try something. Test lift an inert shell or something to make sure it fires out fine.

[mormanman]

I made a star mine with it and it was quite loud. The star when maybe 35 to 45 feet. And Frogy thats half an ounce, I don't have a metric scale yet.

[daily1986]

I made a star mine with it and it was quite loud. The star when maybe 35 to 45 feet. And Frogy thats half an ounce, I don't have a metric scale yet.

 

 

That would be roughly 14.174grams depending on the accuaracy of your scale.

[Ventsi]

hey guys

 

instead of placing the gasoline in a bag couldnt you just pour it right in the mortar

then but your bp in a bag insert a squib and put some tape around it

 

then sink your charge to the bottom of the mortar tube

 

and fire it?

i think that would give a bit more concussion?

[tentacles]

That very well might destroy your mortar - there'd certainly be a lot higher pressure due to the hydraulic action of the liquid fuel being pushed by the charge. Not to mention, with gas all over the inside of the gun (and soaked in the plug) your mortar will probably burn quite nicely.. HDPE candle, anyone? Interestingly HDPE is very similar to paraffin wax, just longer chains.

[FrankRizzo]

[Mumbles]

I know a guy that does it that way. There are a few caveats though.

 

#1 Steel mortars only.

 

#2 You have to dip the lift charge in epoxy. Tape or just the baggy will have a hard time sealing it well enough.

 

#3 Put about 1" of water over the top of the fuel to help prevent fires in the mortar itself.

 

 

[edit] The video Frank posted in the guy, and I would assume he explains how it's done. I didn't take time to watch. He uses a special fuel, which makes it very attractive.

[psyco_1322]

Yep, I was going to say I have that video of him doing one at the 08 convention.

 

Anything other than a steel mortar is not a good idea. He also puts so much water at the bottom of the guns, which is what is left after the shot, and water doesnt burn.

 

He also suggested dipping them in the rubberized coating they sell for coating tool handles. There is the kinds that requires a heated dry and the kind that doesnt, I advise the one that does not need a 300 degree oven to dry.

[Ventsi]

Thanks guys,

 

 

I knew that you have to seal the charge proplerly and use a steel tube ,etc.

 

The water thing is new, but i might try it with some smaller versions 2" ,3".

 

I Got the idea from the Ghost Mines article on Skylighter, here's the link:

 

 

 

http://www.skylighter.com/fireworks/how-to...-ghost-mine.asp

[al93535]

1 liter gasoline fireball with 2FA BP lift, in a 4" ID tube.

 

Do you guys think adding 250 mls of diesel will help the fireball burn longer?

[Miech]

I'm pretty sure some heavier fuels will give a longer lasting fireball. If even diesel is too quick, you might try lamp oil, however this burns *very* hot in a gas mine like device. Also, it does need a lot of gasoline to ignite properly and reliable.

 

I watched the video frame by frame and noticed the following:

Nothing caught fire as far as I know, but be aware .

[Aimlesspayload]

I'm a little confused about the whole "flash doesn't ignite the gas" thing. In this lampara tutorial on www.wichitabuggywhip.com it's just a bottle being exploded by some flash, no secondary ignition? why wouldn't the same apply to a morter?

 

http://www.wichitabuggywhip.com/fireworks/lampare.html

Edited June 28, 2009 by Aimlesspayload

[JrayJ]

Yea...I followed some online tutorial from cannonfuse for creamer and bp in a cardboard tube. The thing CATO'ed. It seemed like a lot of black powder from the start but I went with it anyway.

 

Switching to gasoline; napthalene mothballs seem to not be availible ANYWHERE....I can only fine para mothballs. Apparently from what I can gather, napthalene gives babies liver problems and some other diseases or whatnot. figures.

 

I bought 2 boxes (~600 grams of 99.95% napthalene) at H-E-B here in Texas for less than $5.00. The title on the box was "Old Fashioned Mothballs". But I don't know, from what I heard HEB is kind of a regional store...

And it does cause disease if you are dumb enough to eat the things

Edited July 21, 2009 by JrayJ

[Brianp]

We developed are own 12" fireball. We are now working to do red white and blue fireballs. Hoping we can get them figured out. Here is a link to the 12's

 

https://www.facebook.com/brian.poehls/videos/10157796843166436/

[Boophoenix]

Since this came back up it might be worth noting adding flash to a mortar doesn’t sound like a good idea at all!!!!

 

Liquid fuel mines create lots of downward pressures on the mortar. Unlike a shell there is no blow by. The mortar doesn’t have to be super strong to let the fuel escape the opening in the top, but you will find that many times faster smaller grained powders will blow these blind unless ignition aids are used. 2fa or cannon grade will ignite fine without ignition aids at the correct ratios.

 

We don’t use aids for lifting of shells they shouldn’t be used here in mortars either!!!!

A lampare is a completely different critter you are trying to atomize the fuel in all directions to create a larger fireball. Plus there is no mortar to rupture and throw shrapnel around.

 

Brian, good luck on your quest. I have created all the colors you speak of. I hear threw the grape vine there may be a white in Malta and Mexico. It’s not the easiest of colors to produce. I have done it myself, but not publicly. I had plans to a few years back to display it, but they didn’t pan out at the event. The formula I made up may have some safety issues so I won’t share it till I have way more testing on it. The other two colors aren’t very complicated just tricky on the supply end some times for good color.

 

These are quite fun and rarely used. I guess I may have been the last big displayer of them in 2015 at pyromania. I haven’t seen any other instances of them on a large scale. That wasn’t my best work though had some alterations on the fly that didn’t work out the second shot was a little skewed in color. It was the same year or year before I shot some at an S76 demo that still has a couple of videos floating about the Tube but videos are fading out of circulation now.

A tip I’d offer if you want to dial the effect you want from them work with the green it’s the easiest and cheapest while still having great color. I never dialed mine in to what I want them to look like since I often shot them out of state at events. Dialing in can produce failures so I avoided that.

The last tip I’d share is to reference these by volume not diameter. Both is a good option as well. I’m going to take a guess yours is around 5 gallons give or take a little. Bill’s 12’s are 30 gallons see where this gets confusing? If someone asks you about lift you could give an invalid number. Lift is based on volume and they do scale quite well up or down. I’ve shot down to a pint so far.

You might be careful with colors as well using steel tubes the color agents won’t react well with bare steel. I shoot from stainless or HDPE, but fiberglass will word as well if sealed good. I only own one fiberglass mortar so I don’t use it for this purpose.

[Zephyr40k]

Hi there. I'm completely new to this world and so I'm looking to learn and proceed carefully. Please forgive my ignorance I am curious about alternative lifting charges. Can exploding gasoline vapor be used for that purpose? Say, have a coffee can, put in a few tablespoons of gasoline, and seal the can with, say, aluminum foil and duct tape. (Have an e-match wired into the interior before duct-taping, naturally.) Wait for the gasoline inside to vaporize, then place a ziploc baggie of liquid gasoline (or cremora?) on top and then set that off... would that work? Most likely only on a warm day, I would imagine?

 

I don't need anything super big, just some close-to-ground stuff that would look good on film as it goes off in the background of a shot as people are running around in the foreground.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Zephyr40k

[Boophoenix]

Sounds like you are trying for some special effect type things. Look towards small creamora effects alone. Liquids and vapor fuels will get someone burnt if you do not know what you are doing.

[Zephyr40k]

Sounds like you are trying for some special effect type things. Look towards small creamora effects alone. Liquids and vapor fuels will get someone burnt if you do not know what you are doing.

 

OK, so when you say "small creamora effects," we're still talking about a BP lifting charge, right?

[Boophoenix]

BP lift and high fat content flammable coffee creamer. There are topics on the forum about the effect I’d bet on it. I tinker with mostly liquids and gasses so I’m not real comfortable giving you a step by step instruction on the creamora effect. The first couple of years I tried them small scale I had issues, but once a year one shot attempt wasn’t really tinkering.

I did find for my uses 1.5 times the diameter in height was a nice spot to work from. Which is about like a bucked, can, or cup.

All of the effects mentioned are nothing more than fuel air reactions. When the ratios get correct and a ignition source is available they ignite. I’ve blown them all blind before as well. I can say if you do your math correctly liquids scale up or down just fine. I’ve done from a pint to 30 gallons so far in one shot by calculation the volume of liquid fuel and adjusting the lift to match. I don’t see why creamoras wouldn’t scale about the same way.

I like that you mentioned proceeding carefully. Test this with you as the test subject till you get the effect you want dialed in. It might save you a friend or two. I have walked away from liquids with an ouchie once, lol.

I can’t say for sure as I’ve never tried to lift with gasoline vapor, but I don’t personally like the sound of it. I don’t believe it would atomize the fuel in the bag properly creating a hazard and I wonder if the can would survive structurally to lift the bag.

 

There is a reason why 2fa or cannon powder is the spec for liquids. The grains are large enough to carry into the atomized fuel to ignite the effect when ratios are correct for ignition. Having had to evade one blown blind on a visited site once that I didn’t expect to go blind, but I wasn’t thinking about where the BP came from. Ignition aids are a good idea for liquids in the beginning. They are pretty commonly used with gasses. Can’t say I’ve ever heard of ignition aids with creamoras.

The best advice I can offer is tinker with known effects you can find instructions for. Get comfortable with those then if you want to venture into your own thing with a little more knowledge you may be safer and have better luck.