The ultimate ball mill

[Swede]

I would like to discuss what attributes people would like to see in a ball mill for pyro use, and to see if there is any interest in a ball mill kit, a basic and deluxe version, that would include everything EXCEPT the housing or frame. I did check with admin, got an OK to post, and I don't want this to be seen as gross soliciting. Well, maybe a little!

 

We've all seen some really clever and useful homemade mills, and also some mills that are not optimum. The hassle in rolling your own is sourcing all the hardware... the motor, sheaves, belts, shafting, bearing blocks, collars, wiring, and having them properly mate. Another problem is that the hardware is often substandard; noisy bearings, improper shafting, etc. The motor can be a real weakness. Using some surplus ebay motor from an HVAC application can result in overheating and possibly a fire if the motor is not thermally protected.

 

What attributes are important to you guys in a ball mill? Exceptionally long rollers, large capacity? Variable speed? A heavier motor than you'd normally see? Fan cooling? Remote control?

 

I've got a ton of motion and power transmission hardware coming, and from that mess, hopefully I can put together a kit that will fill a void between a rock tumbler and a very expensive, pre-built ball mill. Thanks for your time.

[TheSidewinder]

For those reading this who don't yet have a proper Ball Mill, Swede's idea might well be the solution to your problems.

 

It isn't going to be a "$20 Ball Mill", that's for sure, but it SHOULD be a way to get a damn fine Mill for a reasonable price. Making your own frame/housing would be a snap for most any handyman.

 

If I were in a position to need one, I'd jump all over it.

 

TS

[Swede]

No inputs yet? Oh well, I'll put together a fairly traditional ball mill from the components and do some picture-taking along the way. I really think variable speed would be a nice touch, as we often use jars of different diameters, loaded with different media, that need their own particular RPM.

[mormanman]

The ball mill sounds fine and my mill is actually fairly quiet, other than the media. What would be awesome is figuring out an efficient jar. I have no problems with your idea but I already have a mill of my own. I got a video on youtube of it if you would like to see. BTW, to make them quiet use wood with holes drill through them and grease the holes with skateboard trucks, bearings, and wheels (the cheap walmart ones work best.)

[Pretty green flame]

Variable speed, I see no use for it, let's be honest, how many people use different sized jars? This would just increase costs. And most ball mills are built around the milling jar as you need to have a certain distance between the roller to prevent slipping and prevent the jar from getting off the rollers.

 

Heavy duty rollers, to be more exact, heavy duty rubber on the rollers, because of minor slipping the jar actually sands down the rubber on the rollers leading to reduced RPM.

 

Other than that, I hav no other suggestions.

[Mumbles]

Well, since we're talking ideal I have a few things I'd love to see in one.

 

Explosion proof motor.

Sound proofing housing on the milling area, might do a bit to contain explosions as well.

Motor separated from the milling area.

A timer perhaps

Active cooling of the motor.

Multiple jar capacity

HDPE Jars

Ability to convert into a star roller would be nice too.

[jacob]

I've alreddy built a mill but I'll add my two cents anyway.

 

Some things I'd like to see are sturdy components, I mean think about it, if you have 30-40lbs of lead tumbling for 3-4 hours at a time the mill's really going to take a beating.

 

Remote start and stop would be very nice, so a capacitor start motor would be necessary.

 

I don't think large capacity is a big issue for most hobbyists, one or two jar would probably be fine.

 

Variable speed might be nice but I don't think it's really necessary, atleast not infinitely variable, maybe just supply step pulleys for different settings, or just build kits for different jar sizes (4'' 6'' 8'')

 

I would really like to see someone sell good, economical milling jars, they were the hardest part for me.

[mormanman]

Well, since we're talking ideal I have a few things I'd love to see in one.

 

Explosion proof motor.

Sound proofing housing on the milling area, might do a bit to contain explosions as well.

Motor separated from the milling area.

A timer perhaps

Active cooling of the motor.

Multiple jar capacity

HDPE Jars

Ability to convert into a star roller would be nice too.

I second that.

[Swede]

Excellent stuff, thanks guys. I understand that pretty much everyone here has a ball mill of some sort. As experienced users of mills, your input is valuable.

 

QUOTE (Mumbles @ Jul 20 2008, 07:11 PM)

Well, since we're talking ideal I have a few things I'd love to see in one.

 

Explosion proof motor.

Sound proofing housing on the milling area, might do a bit to contain explosions as well.

Motor separated from the milling area.

A timer perhaps

Active cooling of the motor.

Multiple jar capacity

HDPE Jars

Ability to convert into a star roller would be nice too. 

 

As always, it's cost vs. function. A true explosion-proof motor is big bux, and by their very nature, are usually top-quality motors to begin with. If one were to go with a normal motor, but separated by a sealed wall, with no access to drifting dust, it might suffice.

 

Motor cooling... I will do nothing less than a TEFC (Totally Enclosed, Fan Cooled) motor, with ball, not sleeve, bearings. If that in turn is placed in a sealed box, then the box as well needs 115VAC forced air circulation.

 

Timer... easy to do. Remote pendant control, also easy, but adds to the cost. I was even thinking about a resettable "counter" that would literally count the number of times the jar completes a turn. Not hard to implement, and would allow some seriously accurate repetitive work.

 

I really like the thought of a star roller attachment or conversion device.

 

Again, thank you all, I appreciate the suggestions. I'm hoping to create packages at different levels of power and component quality that will really ease the making of a great hobby mill.

[Bonny]

Excellent stuff, thanks guys. I understand that pretty much everyone here has a ball mill of some sort. As experienced users of mills, your input is valuable.

 

QUOTE (Mumbles @ Jul 20 2008, 07:11 PM)

Well, since we're talking ideal I have a few things I'd love to see in one.

 

Explosion proof motor.

Sound proofing housing on the milling area, might do a bit to contain explosions as well.

Motor separated from the milling area.

A timer perhaps

Active cooling of the motor.

Multiple jar capacity

HDPE Jars

Ability to convert into a star roller would be nice too. 

 

As always, it's cost vs. function. A true explosion-proof motor is big bux, and by their very nature, are usually top-quality motors to begin with. If one were to go with a normal motor, but separated by a sealed wall, with no access to drifting dust, it might suffice.

 

Motor cooling... I will do nothing less than a TEFC (Totally Enclosed, Fan Cooled) motor, with ball, not sleeve, bearings. If that in turn is placed in a sealed box, then the box as well needs 115VAC forced air circulation.

 

Timer... easy to do. Remote pendant control, also easy, but adds to the cost. I was even thinking about a resettable "counter" that would literally count the number of times the jar completes a turn. Not hard to implement, and would allow some seriously accurate repetitive work.

 

I really like the thought of a star roller attachment or conversion device.

 

Again, thank you all, I appreciate the suggestions. I'm hoping to create packages at different levels of power and component quality that will really ease the making of a great hobby mill.

For the star roller attachment, and to keep it simple, go with a NASCAR type set up (using a tire). That way all the modifications you would likely need is some guides to keep the tire from falling over.

[mormanman]

This isn't a ball mill but I'm sure Swede could build it.

The machine is toward the end of the video and I think its a great idea.

[tentacles]

You don't really *need* different speeds for different jar sizes, within reason - the optimum milling speed changes with respect to jar size almost linearly with the increased circumference of the jar. For example, FrankRizzo here runs 6" Sponenburgh jars on his mill, but my 8" jar runs just shy of the optimum speed for an 8" on his mill. His 6" jars run at optimum speed.

 

You might use a step pulley to achieve a higher speed for star rolling NASCAR style.

[Mumbles]

Mormanman, that is a WASP. Widmann Automatic Shell Paster or something to that effect. I assure you it is not trivial to build.

[mormanman]

Mormanman, that is a WASP. Widmann Automatic Shell Paster or something to that effect. I assure you it is not trivial to build.

Really, I would like one when I start making 6+ inch paper shells.

[Mumbles]

http://www.ctpyro.com/

[Swede]

I built a benchtop CNC mill a few years ago. Mumbles is right, anything CNC controlled is truly a major project, but it could be done by a motivated individual. I love the idea of the CNC shell-paster, and I hope the guy sells thousands of them to the Chinese and others. It's an incredible idea and an amazing gadget.

[ITCHI]

Hello Swede,

I am looking forward to the pricing of the ball mill you spoke of in your blog.

I couldn't figure out if your were planning on selling the plans and shopping list for this mill or as a kit.

Thank you

[Swede]

Hi Itchi, basically it'll be a hardware kit and templates for cutting wood.

 

If anyone else is curious about this project, PM me and I'll be happy to discuss it. I don't want to consume anymore APC forum bandwidth, and I certainly don't want to wear out my welcome here because of it. I should be able to finalize price and availability in 3 weeks or so, and from there it'll all be on a dedicated web site. Thanks all for your input.

[Mumbles]

Don't worry about wearing out the welcome. You're too good of a member for that to happen any time soon. Feel free to post updates when it is done, links, more suggestions, etc.

[TheSidewinder]

Though it isn't needed, I'll second what Mumbles said. Post away, Swede.

 

You've got a hell of a long way to go before bandwidth would become a possibility, let alone a concern.

[marks265]

I was looking for an old topic and ran across this thread. Dunno how I missed it other than 4th of July relapse. I put my best foot forward and built this. It cost a couple bucks no doubt, but I can mill 1000 grams of hot meal bp in 2 hours (trade off for the noise of something running all night). I could load 2 jars and have 2000 grams in 2 hours. My jar holds 32 pounds of 3/4" lead balls and I set the speed so that I hear a tone than gives me goose bumps (at about 45 hertz) Perfect is in the eye of the user and this is my example of a NASCAR version with a twist! I quoted this from the newbie threads I think. I do star rolling, corning, and milling. BTW if someone is local to Wisconsin and wants a passfire corning drum let me know. I have it built except for the screen. I built something else that I really like.

 

I would like to introduce to you the new ultimate pyro machine. This is a combo machine for sure! I have not built the corning drum yet. I added the new motor and speed controls, cleaned up the idler drive tensioner, adjusted external shafts and shortened to hold an 18" wide corning drum, and added the last of the wheels and casters. In hind sight I wish I would have made the cabinet a few inches longer then I would not have to remove the center shaft (which was the original concept). The cast aluminum pulleys suck. I may end up grinding them for a shell or fountain one day. It is still a 2:1 reduction if I buy good sheaves I will probably gear it a little faster. I want to use it and get the feel for what it needs to be first. The external shafts have held a drum load of 32 pounds and the machine was still stable.

 

So yes, a combo machine does now exist!

 

pics;

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg146/m...65/DSC00053.jpg

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg146/m...65/DSC00055.jpg

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg146/m...65/DSC00059.jpg

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg146/m...65/DSC00060.jpg

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg146/m...65/DSC00062.jpg

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg146/m...65/DSC00063.jpg

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg146/m...65/DSC00065.jpg

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg146/m...65/DSC00066.jpg

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg146/m...65/DSC00068.jpg

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg146/m...65/DSC00069.jpg

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg146/m...65/DSC00070.jpg

 

 

The clear jug is for demo purposes only and is 6" in diameter. It is half full of 3/4" lead balls.

 

video;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekakb6IfADQ