Are these ok to grind?

[jointluver]

Is it ok to grind sulfur in a mortar and pestle? what thinks should you be carefull of grinding and what should you never grind!

[Mumbles]

Yes, it is fine.

 

Except for black powder, I would never grind any compositions, or mixtures of fuels and oxidizers. Any chemical alone will be stable enough to grind in a mortar and pestle.

[asilentbob]

If your having to ask these questions, you aren't doing enough research. Really. Read some books related to pyrotechnics that seem to cover what things your most interested in.

 

Another option is to just read tons and tons of archived threads like the ones at the old forum that Mumbles and I link to in our signatures.

[BPinthemorning]

I started with a mortar. Good place... A little boring though.

(For the record, you know your thread description? Well thats what she said.)

[Sylar]

Any chemical alone will be stable enough to grind in a mortar and pestle.

I wouldn't go so far as to say ANY chemical, but at least most OTC chemicals can be grinded seperatly without excessive danger.

 

Inhaling fine dust is never healthy though, so always wear respiratory protection!

[Mumbles]

I was thinking of individual chemicals used in pyrotechnics. There are certainly a plethora of non-pyro related chemicals I would let nowhere near any sort of friction or force.

 

I should probably say save for silver fulminate, as it has legitimate uses in party poppers and those tiny paper balls you throw on the ground to make them snap.

[AprenticeChemist]

Like stated almost any chemical you are going to come in contact with SHOULD be fine to grind in a mortar and pestle by itself. If you are going to use a mortar and pestle to grind things make sure you clean it very good before you start grinding another chemical. Because there are some chemicals you don't want mixing on accident. Id have to disagree about not using a mortar and pestle to grind BP. If you don't have a ball mill and you have the time to sit there for an hour or so grinding BP then go ahead. Just be carefull accidents can happen. Granted with BP the worse that would happen if it went up would be some burns.

 

The most important thing is making sure your mortar and pestle are clean. You don't want to go grinding sulfur, then afterwards grind some KClO3 then using that same KClO3 in flash. Since the KClO3 could be contaminated with the Sulfur which would cause it to be more sensitive. Theres many other things like that which is why you should just wash it. Of course thats common sense and goes with any equipment you might use.

 

Also another safety reminder is when you grind certain chemicals you might want to wear a dust mask since I know from experince that shit can get in the air and sometimes isn't fun to breath. Also some chemicals are toxic to be breathing a lot in.

[mormanman]

I started with a mortar. Good place... A little boring though.

(For the record, you know your thread description? Well thats what she said.)

My goodness, thats ridiculous but true lol.

 

And I was told to be very careful grinding anything even in a ball meal because that fuel you ground earlier can have particles left in the container and when you have that oxidizer with a little heat. Ignition, sometimes. I'm just saying thats what I was told.

 

Edit++++

AC just said what I said but I didn't see it. Opps.

[50AE]

I don't have a ball mill and I use a mortar and pestle, but the surface is rough and particles enter in. I clean it with soap and kitchen sponge afterwards, to be sure that there are no visible particles, but there can be a very small amount of them left. So be careful. Best is not to grind incompatible chemicals, like sulfur, and KClO3 afterwards. My excuse is, that I don't have any incompatibles, all chemicals I have can be mixed without danger .

[psyco_1322]

Grinding sulfur and KClO4 is still not a good idea, its still got a bit of sensitivity to it. But if you get chlorate and sulfur in the M&P and grind you will not get anywhere with out it lighting up.

[Swede]

Grinding sulfur and KClO4 is still not a good idea, its still got a bit of sensitivity to it. But if you get chlorate and sulfur in the M&P and grind you will not get anywhere with out it lighting up.

I have a question on this... hammer tests of perchlorate comps (and I'm sure chlorate as well) the size of a pea will often ring your ears. The samples go off with quite a sharp CRACK. This applies to some star comps, and also other comps designed not to burst but simply to burn, sometimes slowly... comps we would not expect to "explode." If one were to mortar and pestle a star comp containing perchlorate (a bad idea), and in a little, localized spot you get it to ignite, is the likely outcome a pop/crack/bang, or more likely, I'm thinking, the mix will burn and flare a couple feet while you wet your pants.

 

Regardless, I hate mortar and pestle. The screee scree noise it makes is, to me, a fingernails on the blackboard thing. I just cannot stand to do it.

[Mumbles]

Mixed with sulfur, perchlorate is just about as sensitive as chlorate with respect to impact. Principles of Pyrotechnics gives values of 1.1 and 1.2 kgm/cm^2 for chlorate and perchlorate respectively. The testing of friction was not done on both. Interestingly enough, chlorate is more sensitive to friction with lactose than sulfur.

[psyco_1322]

I seen a deminstration of some comps ground in a mortar and pestle that showed what would happen if you did, just pinches but they popped and cracked. It is the confinement of the hammer hitting it that does this. If you did light up a mortar full of star comp it would just flare up and roast your hand(s). I made the mistake of whacking a pinch of flash once with a hammer, it deaffend my ear that was facing it. So the confinement of the hammer hit is a mojor contributor to the noise made.

[AprenticeChemist]

Yea its the confinment that does it, you can do the same thing with strike anywhere matchheads. Just hit one with a hammer and BAM nice little bang.

 

As far as grinding some mixes in a mortar and pestle and it igniting you'd probably just get some burns and maybe a cracked mortar from the heat. I remember one time I had a nice big batch of KNO3/Sugar mix in a big mortar and pestle and I had lit some a bit away as a demonstration, somehow a spark got into the bowl with the remaning KNO3/sugar and WHOOSH big 5ft flames came up and out of the bowl and filled the whole chemistry classroom with smoke. It was pretty funny we just turned on the vents and went outside until it cleared. But the mortar was broke into a few peices from the extreme heat.

[crazyboy25]

Yep grinding perchlorate and sulfur in a mortar will give you some nice sometimes ear ringing pops. I intentionally tried it by adding about one teaspoon of fine Chinese perchlorate to an equal amount of flour sulfur in a ceramic mortar if you grind fairly slowly while applying a good deal of pressure you will get a bunch of rather loud pops. No ignition but in some instances I believe a small black residue was left over.

 

 

But I cant think of many times you need to grind anything with more then one chemical. Comps are either screened together or ballmilled. I only use it to grind down some chemicals with large size like 200 micron ammonium perchlorate. Everything else is usually in a good powdered state or at correct mesh.

[Thalepyrolove]

is it safe for me to use a coffee grinder to make my ammonium perchlorate 200 micron a finer mesh

[Ubehage]

is it safe for me to use a coffee grinder to make my ammonium perchlorate 200 micron a finer mesh

Yes, but remember to clean the grinder very good, before and after.

[Mumbles]

Ammonium perchlorate has so many incompatibilities, I wouldn't bother with that. It'd probably be better to have a dedicated coffee grinder. Keep in mind that it will also corrode any copper based innards quickly if it migrates into the motor. I prefer the style that has a removable and separate grinding chamber for this reason.

[Ubehage]

Is it ok to grind sulfur in a mortar and pestle? what thinks should you be carefull of grinding and what should you never grind!

 

In general, what you should NEVER grind:

- Oxidizers and fuels together. (Pure BP is the only exception).

 

KNO3 and sulphur may even be blademilled together. For some weird reason, this will not burn.