JCrewPyros Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 Alright... I need some guidance here... Alot is newbie stuff... First : Oxidizers, I have Ammonium Perch and Potassium Perch... They are about table salt consistancy... Do they need to be powdered down better? Second.. I am trying to make a red first... the comp I am using is Ammonium Perch 70Sawdust 20Strontium EDIT"CARBONATE"EDIT 10 I am not getting a flame out of this... Its more of a fizz... Can someone shed some light on the situation? EDIT: Sorry it wasn't Strontium Nitrate... It was Carbonate... I had a few beers before I typed that lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justanotherpyro Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 Powdering it to a finer consistency would probably be a good idea. What are you going for? That to me sounds kind of like a red flare type comp? Correct me if I'm wrong though. You might get a better effect if you use straight C for your fuel instead of sawdust but so much depends on what effect you are after. Also on a technical note, the Sr(NO3)2 is also an oxidizer, just not as powerful as the perchlorates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSidewinder Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 If your percs are actually table salt size, then yes, you should mill them down to powder, the finer the better. Same with your SrNO3. Once milled (seperately, of course) screen them together a couple times through 60-80 mesh, then add the sawdust and screen a couple times again (with coarser mesh to let the sawdust though). Then see if doesn't burn a lot better. (caveat: It *should*, anyway.) That does look like a flare comp, or maybe a gerb/lance mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCrewPyros Posted May 5, 2008 Author Share Posted May 5, 2008 Yes you both are correct... I am making lances... I havent had a chance to play with them anymore due to a softball tourny this weekend... From looking at it while it was burning I could see little balls in the comp... I am not much of a scientist or whatnot but I was attributing the balls to the Ammonium Perch... It did light and stay burning... But it just fizzed and hissed and made maybe a 2mm flame... I saw someone use the same comp in person but it made a flame that was alot bigger and brighter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSidewinder Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 I'm 99% sure those little bits of stuff you saw burning and fizzling within the mix, would be eliminated by ball milling the chems down to powder. And when you say "sawdust", what mesh sawdust is that? If you're using what's sold as "wood meal" it should be fine enough already. (I've got a half-gallon tub of it and it's very fine, almost qualifies as a powder.) If it's coarse sawdust, maybe it needs grinding down some more? Not certain, though, since I've seen road flare mixes that used some pretty coarse sawdust. Did you see that in-person successful formula being made? If so, what were the rough meshes of the chems used, and the sawdust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCrewPyros Posted May 5, 2008 Author Share Posted May 5, 2008 Agreed on your first statement... As for the sawdust... It is pretty course... not extremely course... It could be made smaller from my perspective... Once my ordered stuff to make the ball mill gets here I will give it all a one through to see what happens.. I did not get to see it made... He already had it mixed up and was putting them in the lances and was trying to get rid of what he had... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCrewPyros Posted May 6, 2008 Author Share Posted May 6, 2008 Alright I did some more test last night.. I went to Wal-Mart and grabbed a coffee grinder... cheap things... I ran the sawdust in it for a bit... ran the Ammonium Perch in it for a bit and then mixed it with the following formula... Ammonium Perch 70Sawdust 20Strontium 10 I had the same results as in the fizzing instead of a flame... So I went ahead and added 5% more sawdust and recieved a much much better flame... about 1 inch flame... Problem now is that it wasnt emitting a very good red... More less a orange with a bit of red here and there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSidewinder Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 (edited) Something's not right then. Either that formula is wrong (for whatever reason: typo, wrong chem) or what you saw wasn't what the guy claimed it was. It *LOOKS* familiar to me, but I don't have my books at hand to confirm the ratios and ingredients. Users, can anyone confirm that formula is "correct"? EDIT: Wait a minute... a faint memory came back to me. I seem to recall that formula called for some paraffin wax as well as sawdust?? (I could easily be wrong on that, though.) TS Edited May 6, 2008 by TheSidewinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oskarchem Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 According to Passfire, the ratios are correct, maybe try with some less sawdust, as this is to slow down the combustion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCrewPyros Posted May 6, 2008 Author Share Posted May 6, 2008 Less sawdust creates a fizzle effect... I dont get much of a flame... That was the reason I added a slightly more to it... Once I did that I got the flame that I wanted... Either way I havent gotten the red it needs to be... or even close to that matter... Any opinions or advice would be great... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justanotherpyro Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 Ok here is a hunch of mine. If it was under fueled and having the fizzling issue then worked when properly fueled ( extra 5%) but gave an unwanted color then maybe try substituting some of the sawdust with some airfloat C. The sawdust will burn to give a yellow flame, but you need to have the comp sufficiently fueled to prevent the fizzling so adding some C might help reduce that yellow color. Another thing you might try if you have the chems is adding a chlorine donor to help bring out the red. The AP acts somewhat as a Chlorine donor, but having a bit more in there from maybe Parlon or PVC couldn't hurt. I recommend those two because they also act like fuels and the composition is pretty oxygen rich. If you do add one of these fuel Cl donors then you may not have to add as much sawdust/C fuel. Like I said these are just hunches. I have been experimenting with blue for a while now and its strange how a formula can work well for someone else then be complete shite for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCrewPyros Posted May 8, 2008 Author Share Posted May 8, 2008 Well I got tired of experimenting with the red so I moved over to a blue lance comp... Amm Perch 68Copper Oxychloride 11Hexamine 17Dextrin 4 Some questions about this comp... Indeed it does burn blue... Kinda lighter blue than I would have thought... But I had a problem LOL... I am making 3/8th ID paper tubes that are oh about 5" long... These suckers burn fast... Not only that.. But once they get to have about an inch left they shoot off in a random direction lmao... Was amusing but I dont want them to do that... Any ideas on how to slow this comp down? I have videos... I will have to post them when I get a chance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest colizoli Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 I've got a decent red from a basic flare comp: AP 50Strontium Nitrate 30red gum 15 Lancaster's Red Lance AP #1 is close to what your using: AP 70 Wood Meal 20 Strontium Carbonate 10 I dry the strontium nitrate at 200F for 60-90 mins, then keep it double bagged with dessicant. Don't know if water is making a difference here!? drjoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCrewPyros Posted May 9, 2008 Author Share Posted May 9, 2008 I am using the Lancaster AP Red... I gave the wrong chemical name that I was using.. I said Strontium Nitrate... But I meant Carbonate... I haven't gotten a chance to play with the red anymore... Was really hoping someone could chime in on how to slow the blue down... That friggin comp burns fast and pretty powerful... Not a good lance comp in my mind.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InRainbows Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Slow it down by adding sawdust, say 5%, or by increasing the amount of fuel in the composition your using, something along: Ammonium Perch 60Copper Oxychloride 14Hexamine 22Dextrin 4 Personally, 4% dextrin is too much, at least in my mind. If you'd like, try that, it's a good guess in my mind, but it would probably be easier to just mix in around 5% sawdust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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