Dr Boom Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 Wow! It sure has been a while since I posted anything meaningful or random for that matter. Most of you know that I’m abroad and when I return home from time to time I re-sharpen my Pyro skills and paint the sky. Well, this trip home I was in for a treat, my Dad was telling me about a mysterious "mold" that was taking over the basement and pushing off all the paint. He had exhausted fungicides, repainting and even blow-torching the stuff off but a few days later it was back. Upon investigating the matter further when I got there (and a happy dance when I saw what it was) I discovered generous amounts of KNO3 growing on the walls. http://www.apcforum.net/files/KNO3_wall2.JPGI had always heard the stories in old Pyro books where one might go down to the cellar and "scrape the nitre from the walls". http://www.apcforum.net/files/KNO3_handful.JPGOf course, there wasn't enough at the time for any sizable experiments but Pops promised to go down from time to time and scrape the fluffy crystals from the walls and save them in mason jars. http://www.apcforum.net/files/KNO3_grow.JPGWhile not a ready source for pounds of KNO3 for BP, with time this will provide good quality nitrate for small controlled tests where buying a lot of KNO3 might be wasteful. Now- go check out your basement! You never know what might be growing down there in the gloom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomer Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 Did you test it? Is there a stable on the other side of the wall? In my cellar, what grows on the walls is what gets leached out of the concrete/plaster/whetever, but no nitrate. I remember being a happy kid 30 years ago until I found out (about five minutes later) it was not what I thought. But it *is* possible, just needs lots of piss and shit, time and the right bacteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Boom Posted December 17, 2007 Author Share Posted December 17, 2007 Yeah Boomer, I thought about that and just how this stuff might be destroying the walls on the dirt-side. No stables or manure, just a lot of compost from the trees and yard trimmings that Dad keeps pile'in up to keep the dirt from washing away. I did a nichrome wire flame test to it and it gave a Lilac hue to the fire. Unless I can use it "as is" for mixes I doubt I'll go through all the trouble to dissolve it, filter, re-crystalize, dry, powder mill, etc..... Just really neat to finally see this stuff come through like i've read about. I've made KNO3 from white ash, dirt and coffee filters before just to see it work but this method only takes a couple weeks.. er, minus the 20 years that the cellar has been there, hmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST1DinOH Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 for a second there i thought i'd click this topic and see pics of a nice hydroponic lab... but this is somehow cooler that that. if that turns out to be usefull i'll be happy for you. in one of my military manuals (improvised munitions handbook) it gives instructions on doing something like this...but it involved running water through dirt... i'll have to look it up tonight when i get home and post it here if i can find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Boom Posted December 18, 2007 Author Share Posted December 18, 2007 in one of my military manuals (improvised munitions handbook) it gives instructions on doing something like this...but it involved running water through dirt... i'll have to look it up tonight when i get home and post it here if i can find it. You are right ST1DinOH, I just didn't want to give out the whole idea away but rather spark interest and have a reader look it up, good research is the path to great pyrotechnics right? So far, making BP without the aid of industrialized methods has been promising- Now if I could just grow sulfur crystals along side that KNO3... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST1DinOH Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 in one of my military manuals (improvised munitions handbook) it gives instructions on doing something like this...but it involved running water through dirt... i'll have to look it up tonight when i get home and post it here if i can find it. You are right ST1DinOH, I just didn't want to give out the whole idea away but rather spark interest and have a reader look it up, good research is the path to great pyrotechnics right? So far, making BP without the aid of industrialized methods has been promising- Now if I could just grow sulfur crystals along side that KNO3... well whiel we're on the topic of harvesting sulfur from nature... a friend of mine has well water that he'd probably pay you to harvest the sulfer from, provided you could do so with %100 effectivness prior to it reaching his plumbing. his water does some spooky things to his pipes. the copper pipe coming from the top of the water heater has turned a chromed blue color makes me wonder whats in the water other than iron and sulfur. his water stinks so bad when you turn the water on to wash your hands you almost throw up. it's the worst well water i've ever smelled. the only positive side of that is it's artesian (sp). now that i think about it the runoff from the well pump has these crazy slimy white moss like things growing in it...thats not sulfur is it? it only grows in the runoff of his pump when the pump isn't providing more pressure than the natural spring, so i know it's coming from the ground. if you are ever near toledo and have an inkling to harvest white slime from a drainage ditch...send me a PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSidewinder Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Toldeo doesn't have a monopoly on that, lol. I have relatives in extreme SW Nebraska. Everyone for tens of miles around has well water that stinks as bad or worse than what you describe. The cattle drink it, but that's all it's good for. Everyone uses bottled water, for *everything*. Even Yellowstone smelled better than that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSidewinder Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Dr. Boom: The more I think about it, the more I wonder if that really *is* KNO3. Have you done a more definitive test than flame-testing, since posting? Like Boomer, I seem to recall that cement block walls leech a different chemical than KNO3, although the two looked similar? M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Boom Posted December 19, 2007 Author Share Posted December 19, 2007 TSW- I wasn't home long enough to perform any extensive tests on it however if I send my Pops some directions on what to do he should be able to get some results. What did you have in mind to try? Besides the obvious mix up some in a BP compo and see if it lights.. I could tell him how to calc. specific gravity and compare a known sample of KNO3, or heck- I dunno... my brain is fried since it is late here. Will post again tomorrow- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankRizzo Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 The easiest test would be to mix some with powdered sugar (ratio not incredibly important), and see if you get an acceptable result with ignition. However, this is likely just the usual efflorescence many basements get as moisture moves through the concrete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSidewinder Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Sorry Dr. Boom, I'm no chemist. No idea what tests you'd have to perform. Maybe one of our resident chem-geeks () can chime in here.... Seems to me the stuff is a lime-based compound, but that's only a wild guess. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyboy25 Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 did a little searching test its water solubility it should dissolve very readily in warm water if it does soak some paper in it and let it dry if it burns like touch paper theres a good chance you have kno3. also it should give a violet flame test.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankRizzo Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Solubility won't tell you much...we already know it's very water soluble because that's how it leached through the porous concrete. Unless there's a source of nitrogen in the soil very near that wall (animal urine or manure), the stuff is probably just calcium or magnesium salts leached from the soil or concrete itself. The chances of it being a potassium salt are just about zero. Google "basement efflorescence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asilentbob Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Yup, and you shouldn't get a potassium violet flame color because of the inherent sodium, calcium, etc impurities. Seems like many people are forgetting about these lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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