sulphurless black powder

[shagaKahn]

Hoping this is the proper forum for such a topic, was wondering if any of you pyromeisters have tried making bp without sulphur.

 

It's getting harder and harder to find sulphur and as I keep hearing it ain't really necessary, I'm ready to try a batch of bp without it.

 

But the forumlae I'm finding ain't consistent as to KNO3/C ratios--everything from 70/30 up to 87/13.

 

Have y'all found a good ratio that works for lift/burst powder?

 

Thanx a meg,

s

[oskarchem]

Well I use KNO3+C but it isin't really as good a PB without S, because S lowers the ignition temp.

[shagaKahn]

Interesting. Was led to believe S was superfluous--but hey, if it does no good, why's it in there, right?

 

If it just weren't so hard/expensive to get a pound of S. Skylighter only wants to sell in 5lb increments--and it would take me a century to use up that much.

 

And to top it off, my dwindling supply of S is flowers, which I've heard means high acid which I've heard means increased danger.

[hst45]

Sulfur is readily available at agricultural supply stores, although I generally find it as pellets with 10% clay added. This can readily be ground with a coffee grinder, and the clay is inert and doesn't seem to be a problem. In a typical 75/15/10 BP mix the clay that the sulfur carries amounts to a whopping 1% and doesn't hurt a bit.

[shagaKahn]

Ah. It's just this agricultural grade sulphur that I've heard was highest in acid content.

 

S'pose, long as I'm not mixing it with chlorates and confine it to BP, there's no greater risk than I'm taking now, with my flowers.

 

Thanx, hst,

s

[ITCHI]

http://www.ihaveadotcom.com/cart/index.php...f5a85795272c6a3

[shagaKahn]

Good tip.

 

Though I really only need one pound, his three-pound price is only five bux more.

 

(Will just have to get creative with sulphur).

 

Thanx itchi,

s

[Aquarius]

Having wanted to try out the sulferless BP for some time now, I'll give it a go this weekend. Will try the 8:3 thast Alan Yates has on his site, using airfloat Alder c in my rocktumbler, wetted and granulated. The test will not be of the scientific side, I'll just whip up 110 grams and see if/how it works.

 

I suspect it will not be as good as regular BP, but with a good charcoal it might work ok.

[shagaKahn]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. (Good charcoal in, better BP out).

 

Recently cooked up a batch of balsa charcoal, and this stuff absolutely rocks for BP.

 

(Last batch--traditional with sulphur--came out as fast or faster than my standard, Goex 3FG).

[poisonkiller]

What if I cook some charcoal and grind it with KNO3 in a coffee grinder? It shouldn't ignite, because of high ignition temperature. Possible?

[shagaKahn]

If you mean a slow hand-cranked coffee grinder, I'd say maybe--but I'd wear leather gauntlets and a face shield and do it outside.

 

If you're talking about an electric coffee grinder/spice mill, I'd say don't risk it.

 

Ball mill.

[BigDave]

Hans ulrich has already done extensive testing of sulfered and sulferless bp.

 

The sulfers main purpose is to lower the ignition temperiture, although optimized powder with sulfer is slightly more powerful than sulferless.

 

Sulfered powder can be ignited with 300 centigrade, sulferless requires 400 centigrade.

 

I'm planning on making some to use in fountains to reduce smake, I'll just prime the top with sulfered powder.

 

http://www.musketeer.ch/blackpowder/homemade_bp.html

[Aquarius]

I made a small sample batch of sulphrless this weekend, just to see what it would be like. The ratio was 80:20 + 5 % Red Gum, since I wanted to try it out as a driver comp. in endburners.

 

The powder is not bad at all, but I think it requires a good and fast charcoal. Of course, the Red Gum will act as a binder as well as a fuel in this comp.

 

Having only done "open flame-test", if is hard to say how well it will perform. But it is not "as bad" as I thought it would be, less smoke and spark and a different smell.

[omijam]

just tested with 75, 20 no S

 

slow burning, never can lift something with that...

also make some 50, 50 using the same procedure an looks its burns almost the same rate

 

just ball milled with fishing Pb (not round, more oval..) for 30min

(ball milling machin still under construction)

 

without proper ball mill there will never be good BP, or Im supposes to anyways see a good result?

 

im using home depot stump remover and vegetal charcoal, both powdered by a coffee grinder individually

 

 

my goal is to make some 1.5 shells for new years party

 

thanks for all your teaching, im learning a lot from you

 

btw,

im asking for advice and hints, this is the 1st time doing bp here.

thanks

[omijam]

still no luck here.

 

ball milled 4 times, 1h each time (the motor get to hot so i let it cool then mill for another hour)

 

wet it with alcohol and water, then screen it.

 

before that it start to burn 2-3 sec after put the lighter

now it burs 6-9 sec after putting the lighter

 

i also get the 2-3 star burning when mixed small random amounts in a small can with some coins

 

 

I have seen some post that states that to get better bp it must be compressed using a hydraulic press.

 

but have not seen any video of how to do it nor any picture of the tool to put the bp inside then compress it

[Svarc]

Just for information S in BP is for lowering the ingnition temperature and for producing more gases so BP with S is more powerfull as without it. Infact BP without S burns quckly than with S but it is the power you need not the speed. Go on and test just calculate the right ratio. If you need the corect ratios just ask but first try and calculate on your own.

Best wishes.

[qwezxc12]

snip...im using home depot stump remover and vegetal charcoal, both powdered by a coffee grinder individually

What brand is the stump remover, specifically? This may sound stupid, but are you sure it's KNO3?

 

Grant's, GreenLight, and Spectracide all are KNO3 (at least their MSDS say they are)

Bonide "Stump-Out" is not.

[psyco_1322]

I did see some at home depot in a weird looking container but didnt buy it because I wanted a known to work brand. I had the wrong store.

[Picric acid DOES taste bitter!]

It so happens that i have stumbled upon a working recepie for S'less BP. Its not as effective as real BP and have a crappy OB but it burns like hell when slightly confined/unconfined. Tried it for a small rocket once, but that sucked due to the OB problem; it seems to need the air to combust properly.

 

Here are the ratious (volume) :

 

2 parts ground charcoal

1 part sugar

2.5 parts NaNO3

 

Procedure: Mix the powders and disolve in water untill all the NaNO3 and sugar has dissolved. Then boil the water off, wile stirring, to ensure an intimate mix. Also, be careful when the water almoast have steamed off, you dont want the batch to ignote on the stove .

 

Its boring with all the stirring an boiling, but i if you powder all the ingredients well and use less water this will reduce boiling-time.

 

Also, you should use KNO3 instead since it is more reactive and would increase performance. I didnt because i didnt have KNO3 at the time. due to the same reactivity and the KNO3 dont have the same "lumping" problem as NaNO3 when burned, modify ratio to 3.5 parts KNO3, again, to increase OB and performance.