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Use of KMnO4 in Pyrotechnics


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#1 LGM

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Posted 17 November 2007 - 09:10 AM

The other day I came across a 5 Lb tub of potassium permanganate at a hardware store and decided to gt it. I was wondering if it is safe to use as an oxidizer in stars, or if it reacts dangerously with any other chemicals. I have read somewhere that it will ignite by contact with water if sulfur is present. If someone has experience with this, info would be greatly appreciated.

#2 Mumbles

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Posted 17 November 2007 - 12:17 PM

It is completely unsuitible as an oxidiser in pyrotechnics. Some morons may come by and say they use it in flash and it works great, but alas, they are morons.
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#3 ActiveA

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Posted 17 November 2007 - 04:50 PM

It is completely unsuitible as an oxidiser in pyrotechnics. Some morons may come by and say they use it in flash and it works great, but alas, they are morons.

Ah alas.


I used it once upon a time. When i didn't have access to KCl04 or Kno3.

No it won't ignite with water when in contact with S8, well not in my experience. I used it as a payload for my rockets. I dislike the stuff, and the "flash" can't really be called flash because it is incredibly slow for any kind of flash. My BP is faster now.


Yeah, don't use it. I've heard it can spontaneously ignite with S8, although it hasn't happened to me. It also stains like no tomorrow.

#4 oskarchem

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Posted 17 November 2007 - 07:13 PM

Nah... Don't use it the worse thing is that the purple stains get oxidised and become brown and they are impossible to remove; I have never heard of it igniting with water if S8 was preasent
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#5 Mumbles

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Posted 17 November 2007 - 07:31 PM

I dunno about sulfur with water, but it is unstable with acidic things, such as sulfur. It can however spontaneously ignite when mixed with sucrose from friction or water. I usually just got it to like sizzle and decompose with water. Definite reaction though. I'd imagine it may preform similarly with lactose, and other carbohydrate things, but never tested it out. It is also incompatible with any ammonium compounds, and would probably keep it away from most transition metals, and alkali earth metals.
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#6 oskarchem

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Posted 18 November 2007 - 03:14 AM

The nonly thing KMnO4 is good for is making smoke with hydrogen peroxyde.
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#7 crazyboy25

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Posted 18 November 2007 - 12:29 PM

thats just steam and you need highly concentrated H2O2 to get it interesting bottom ling permangneate has no real use in pyro other that a few novelty experiments.
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#8 oriansbelt

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Posted 18 November 2007 - 07:35 PM

Yeah, the only use I've found for the stuff is creating steam with 35% H2O2 or for igniting termite with glycerin. I've actually been designing a mono-hybrid propellant rocket engine using the steam reaction but right now it is just in the idea faze. I need some more KMnO4 before I can do more testing, what was the brand name/use of the stuff you found? I'll would love if I could just get it from a local hardware store since I found 35% H2O2 at a local hydroponics store the other day(yes, I was inspired to look there by the hydroponics thread). :P
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#9 h0lx

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 07:35 AM

I have used it for quite a few novelty pyro stuff. Probably the most notable thing is combining it with calcium flakes, hehehe. Altho mainly it's more useful for chemistry syntheses

#10 oskarchem

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 03:03 AM

Oriansbelt; I dunno about the rocket, you would need a lot of KMnO4 and H2O2, and I dont think it would produce enough pressiure to make the thing take off with the payload that's flerf (KMnO4 and H2O2 that hasent been consumed)

I find that it has a pretty good use: Making Iodine cristals with KI.
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#11 WarezWally

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 04:39 AM

KMnO4 can make some scary flash that is getting damn close to HE

#12 qwezxc12

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 09:30 AM

KMnO4 can make some scary flash that is getting damn close to HE

Just to point out a previous comment...

It is completely unsuitible as an oxidiser in pyrotechnics.  Some morons may come by and say they use it in flash and it works great, but alas, they are morons.


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#13 ActiveA

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 02:27 AM

KMnO4 can make some scary flash that is getting damn close to HE

Nah, i prefer my MgAl/KCl04 + 5% Ti Flash...


Its so scary i hardly use it anymore.


Makes great salute payloads for rockets though, sounds like the sky is splitting in half.

#14 WarezWally

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 03:14 AM

http://www.trickz.co.uk/flash-demo.wmv

That scary?

#15 oriansbelt

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 05:37 PM

Oriansbelt; I dunno about the rocket, you would need a lot of KMnO4 and H2O2, and I dont think it would produce enough pressiure to make the thing take off with the payload that's flerf (KMnO4 and H2O2 that hasent been consumed)

I know that much higher purity H2O2(70%+) has been used as a mono-propellant in rockets and is what rocket belts use for fuel as it decomposes on silver mesh/screens. KMnO4 and 70%+ H2O2 is pretty much a detonation so it isn't used, I believe they call it explosive decomposition. 35% H2O2 and silver has very little reaction so it also has no use. What I hope to do is use 35% H2O2(because anything above that is hard to find) and KMnO4 as fuels because they are reactive enough to create thrust and are relatively easy to get. When I design hybrid or liquid rocket engines I try to make the components easy enough to get that the the engine could easily be built anyone who has the tools to do it(usually a lathe is needed). And yes, I have designed and built a hybrid engine before.

So to repeat my question, how/where did u find that KMnO4? I still won't be able to do enough tests to prove my concept of the engine till I get an easy source of KMnO4.
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#16 hst45

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 07:57 PM

Try your local Agway store. Up here they sell 5# tubs of permanganate as a "revitalizer" for green-sand septic systems for about $35. I don't use it for pyro, but while I was shopping for stuff for the farm I bumped into it. Hope that helps.

Concentrated peroxide/permanganate fuels are FAR above my pay grade, but it sounds pretty dodgy to me. Good luck, and stay safe.
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#17 ActiveA

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 11:34 PM

http://www.trickz.co.uk/flash-demo.wmv

That scary?

I think so.

Now its all gone, i love using them in Cup Set salutes...

#18 oriansbelt

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 12:39 PM

hst45: Thanks, that should help alot and I'll try to be safe :P .
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#19 mormanman

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Posted 23 November 2007 - 01:05 AM

http://www.trickz.co.uk/flash-demo.wmv

That scary?

Just out of curiousity. What kind of flash is that? It scared me while I was in the safety of my own home and watching it on the computer. :D
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#20 WarezWally

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Posted 23 November 2007 - 03:48 AM

KMno4 and Al

1um aluminium




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