Aquarius Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 I have been turning my grey matter over a few times now, and I am looking for a method to make my nozzles even harder. My current method is bentonite, fireclay(grog) and a bit of wax. But I am not satisfied with my nozzles yet, I would like to make them even harder. I ram all my drivers/nozzlework with a thightfitting sleve, but I would like to make them even harder. So I was thinking about adding Red Gum and alcohol to my nozzle mix to harden them, say 5 % each. Any suggestions on this matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeAdFX Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Why not use THF + plasticizer + pvc pipe... I am pretty certain that will harden quiet well much more than red gum... It will also be slightly fire resilient too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 It might be harder, but it will still melt. I'd try adding some sodium silicate soln(waterglass) to the clay before pressing. Once it cures, it will be harder and more fire resistant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al93535 Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 what you need to do is use the right material. Check my post at: http://www.apcforum.net/forums/index.php?s...t=0entry21753 Adding ingredients, and making more steps just takes away from the other aspects of pyro. If your plugs/nozzles are not hard enough you either 1: are not ramming hard enough, or as many times as you should, or 2: You are not using the correct material. This is why I suggest Fresh step, it has additives which makes a far superior product! There is no additional prep time and it comes in big resealable boxes. One box will last a LONG time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormanman Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 This might work but I'm just saying stuff. Try bentonite mixed with some super glue. I would use gloves it work with it. But super glue is strong stuff right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocket Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 I don't think super glue would be a good idea as it with curer very fast and if you do manage to get it in the tube it will stick to the spindle and rammer, have fun getting that out . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormanman Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 Oh I have never used a kit to build rockets I was thinking a drill to make the nozzle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadman Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 I think your best options are to either: A:Use a better mix. I don't like straight bentonite from the well drillers company. I really want to try Fresh Step now.B:Press it instead of ram it. Pressing produces much better results, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquarius Posted August 15, 2007 Author Share Posted August 15, 2007 I've tried the straight bentonite, bentonite and grog 75/25 with wax, bentonite and waterglass and straight kitty litter: Of the better ones were straigt bento with waterglass, I might have to go that way again after all. The waterglass ones set hard as rock, but I might have used a bit to much of the solution, since the waterglass crystalize on the outside of the nozzle\clay. As a cheaper and more ready availiable, I'll try kitty litter with waterglass. Oh, why can I not just settle for one thing that works well enough.. sigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormanman Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 I found this on Skylight and don't know a thing about it but it says that it will help harden the nozzle. Its called Kyanite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquarius Posted August 21, 2007 Author Share Posted August 21, 2007 I tried some cheap cat sand with and w/o waterglass. It seems to work ok, the nozzles are quite hard.The ones with waterglass turned out quite coarse when dry. Now all I have to do is to testfire them... As for kyanite, bentonite, kaolin and the likes, they are all different forms of dry and powdered clay. For a test period, I'll try the cat sand approach for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
optimus Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 IIRC, Kyanite is Aluminium Silicate. I have a few shiny blue crystals of the stuff in my collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gottagotomoz Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Well, thanks to Al93535's suggestion, all I use now is Fresh Step kitty litter. Makes rock hard nozzles, doesn't crumble, and can be used straight from the box. Plus, it's cheap. So, yeah I second (or third, or whatever) al's suggestion on the Fresh Step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogy Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Lol everyone is becoming a believer of Fresh Step It really works great, just try it.... Everybody's doing it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormanman Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I want to but I don't have a proplem with what I use. And I need to finish my bag. Its the cheap stuff and some one gave me a wheat grinder so I just grind it easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I was a believer in the cheap shit. After working with Al a bit, I must say, I am reasonably addicted to fresh step too. The containers are nicer too for pyro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogy Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I just ordered some Perc, Dextrin,...,..., and some bentonite I rarely have bentonite myself, because I normally use Fresh Step (and I still have like 24 lbs. of Fresh Step left) But if you give me ideas on how to test the strength of nozzles I could try to run some test... I have plenty of Fresh Step, Grog, Sodium Silicate, Paraffin, and soon some Bentonite... I can get graphite and such for test also, but I'm not ordering kyanite... I have stuff to make a press that I could try and see at what pressure they crush... But I'd assume a heat test or driver test would show better results... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormanman Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 OK I got any idea and I think its pretty good. Ok so heres what you do, get the tube the rammer and the nozzle mix, also a scale that can take a bunch of presure. Make your nozzle in the tube of course, I don't think you need a hole in you nozzle but just keep reading you can decide. After you make the nozzle or plug as hard as you want put the rammer back in, flip the rammer and tube w/ the nozzle/plug nozzle side up. Put it on the scale and begin to put presure on the rammer from the tube. Pay attention to the tube, when ever the nozzle/plug falls apart or "CATO's" you will have to be fast but look at the scale and read how many lbs you were putting on the scale and that should be the amout of lbs on your nozzle/ plug. Judgement and correcting is welcome by all means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquarius Posted August 22, 2007 Author Share Posted August 22, 2007 The way I do nozzle test is the old fashon static test. I load a tube with a certain and fixed mass of "experimental nozzle clay" and ram it with say 10 medium blows. Then I use a pretty powerful rocket configuratin (one I KNOW will work) and testfire.If it cato's with the new mix, it the nozzle mix is no good. If it "runs", then I measure the nozzle opening for erosion.I have not gotten so far as building my digital test stand yet, but I will one day... Finding the perfect nozzle and end plug mix is not easy (or nessecary..) I try to find a configuration that is cheap, easy to obtain and handle and work all the time PLUS lightweigth. I put some old and some newer used casings on my scale, and found a lot of the weight in my motors are from the nozzles and endplugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormanman Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I think yours sound like to much work but yours will accutly work and I don't know a thing about mine. Also, sometimes I put a little water in the nozzle mix to make less air pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogy Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Ya I notice that too.. With my 3/8" rockets I have like 2g in Fresh Step and 4g in BP... Really I don't need to test nozzles at all, I already know from past experiences that Fresh Step is better than Bentonite, but I'm going to try some core burners with fairly fast bp w\ a Fresh Step nozzle and a Grog:Bentonite or Bentonite nozzle and see which holds up... The only thing is, I don't have tooling or a press, so there's no way I can get the same core... and it's pretty hard to get end burners to CATO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invisibleworld Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 You will find a good nossle combination is bentonite with an addition of 5-10% graphite thrown into the bentonite. It makes a very temp resistant nossle plus from what I've been told, it kind of creates less resistance for the flame spray, like a lubricant. I'm not to sure about the later, but I know they stand up really well to cumbustion and flame erosion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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