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Lift powder


MrCATO

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I've made quite a few rockets now and I'd like to start trying my hand at shells. (Those color and report kits look cool) While I do have a ball mill I recently moved and I don't really have a safe place to mill black powder with it at the moment.

I'm looking to 2-4" shells. Is it possible to make suitable screen mixed BP that can lift shells like this? Is red gum better than dextrin for this purpose?

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For better lift charge must need ball mill, without ball mill u need pestle and mortar . 

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2 hours ago, MrCATO said:

I've made quite a few rockets now and I'd like to start trying my hand at shells. (Those color and report kits look cool) While I do have a ball mill I recently moved and I don't really have a safe place to mill black powder with it at the moment.

I'm looking to 2-4" shells. Is it possible to make suitable screen mixed BP that can lift shells like this? Is red gum better than dextrin for this purpose?

No..

Screen mixture BP dont work as a lift for shells. For lifting your shell you will need hot BP ( The BP that burns too fast) which can be achieved by ball milling.

Red gum is not a good choice in my experience, it can make your BP slower.

Dextrin is good choice but remember just add 2 percent only while granulating your BP.

Too much binder also affect burn rate.

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It's possible to make screen mixed BP that makes suitable lift. Search through the forum and see some of the work that DavidF has done around this.  Super milling charcoal is quite effective.  

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Getting a decent lift charge won't be nearly as much pf a problem as getting a decent burst! You can expect to have the most trouble with the smaller shells (3" or smaller). Even with halfway decent BP, you can get a good lift charge, but many people still need to add a booster of some sort to their burst charge with those smaller shells.

Edited by MadMat
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Exactly, Mr. Madmat, in our Indian fireworks industry they all make slow lift charge after that there shells reach decent height. They use flash powder for bursting(max 5") 

Edited by sachinagg
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40 minutes ago, sachinagg said:

Exactly, Mr. Madmat, in our Indian fireworks industry they all make slow lift charge after that there shells reach decent height. They use flash powder for bursting(max 5") 

They are using ball milled charcoal for their screened mix BP lift. 

Also KNO3 is milled into very fine powder using flour mill before mixing bp.

Unmilled BP lift need to add more in percentage for lifting shell than milled BP lift.

Also Flash broken shell is limited only upto 3 inch size. For 5 inch shell Rice hulls BP burst charge is used.

Above 3 inch size flash burst is not allowed for factory.

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6 hours ago, Zumber said:

They are using ball milled charcoal for their screened mix BP lift. 

Also KNO3 is milled into very fine powder using flour mill before mixing bp.

Unmilled BP lift need to add more in percentage for lifting shell than milled BP lift.

Also Flash broken shell is limited only upto 3 inch size. For 5 inch shell Rice hulls BP burst charge is used.

Above 3 inch size flash burst is not allowed for factory.

I can't understand what u want to say, but its confirmed that our fireworks industry makes slow lift powder for proper ignition. Yes they add more in there product. I do dissected 4.5 inch aerial shell,there shell ball contains flash powder. In future I will send u photo/video.

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40 minutes ago, sachinagg said:

I can't understand what u want to say, but its confirmed that our fireworks industry makes slow lift powder for proper ignition. Yes they add more in there product. I do dissected 4.5 inch aerial shell,there shell ball contains flash powder. In future I will send u photo/video.

In past years Indian Industry were using screened mix of BP for lift they dont mill KNO3 Sulphur Charcoal together instead of this they were using very fine charcoal, and KNO3 is milled previously Using flour mills.

Right now most of reputed industries are using Ball milling lift.

According to PESO flash powder is not allowed above 3 inch shell.

If you have found 4.5 inch shell that contains flash burst then it is not legal. 

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I understand and that is right. But I think fireworks company intentionally make ther lift charge slow for perfect ignition in shell fuse. 4.5" Shell from reputed company. 

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2 hours ago, sachinagg said:

I understand and that is right. But I think fireworks company intentionally make ther lift charge slow for perfect ignition in shell fuse. 4.5" Shell from reputed company. 

Not at all.

There is no such a relation of burning lift and spolette ignition.

Every company applies bp slurry plus coarse Grain of BP at both end of spolette to insure lift ignition and burst ignition.

They were using slow lift because of there hugh requirement if lift charge which was unable using ball mill.

Thats the reason why they were using screen mix bp and they added in  extra amount for shell lift.

Commercially they need 100 plus kg lift in a day which is hugh amount and cant be milled within less time.

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On 5/16/2024 at 5:14 AM, MrCATO said:

I've made quite a few rockets now and I'd like to start trying my hand at shells. (Those color and report kits look cool) While I do have a ball mill I recently moved and I don't really have a safe place to mill black powder with it at the moment.

I'm looking to 2-4" shells. Is it possible to make suitable screen mixed BP that can lift shells like this? Is red gum better than dextrin for this purpose?

You could use the so-called "double-double" method. Mill KnO3 with C at 75:5 ratio. This is very safe and resulting mixture is unignitable. Mill 10:10 S and C. Screen mix the two mixtures at 4:1 ratio.

Granulate with 50% alcohol, no binder is needed.

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Probably the best answer is to make the mill work for you, otherwise can you actually buy BP. 

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