MrCATO Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 I've made quite a few rockets now and I'd like to start trying my hand at shells. (Those color and report kits look cool) While I do have a ball mill I recently moved and I don't really have a safe place to mill black powder with it at the moment. I'm looking to 2-4" shells. Is it possible to make suitable screen mixed BP that can lift shells like this? Is red gum better than dextrin for this purpose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sachinagg Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 For better lift charge must need ball mill, without ball mill u need pestle and mortar . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zumber Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 2 hours ago, MrCATO said: I've made quite a few rockets now and I'd like to start trying my hand at shells. (Those color and report kits look cool) While I do have a ball mill I recently moved and I don't really have a safe place to mill black powder with it at the moment. I'm looking to 2-4" shells. Is it possible to make suitable screen mixed BP that can lift shells like this? Is red gum better than dextrin for this purpose? No.. Screen mixture BP dont work as a lift for shells. For lifting your shell you will need hot BP ( The BP that burns too fast) which can be achieved by ball milling. Red gum is not a good choice in my experience, it can make your BP slower. Dextrin is good choice but remember just add 2 percent only while granulating your BP. Too much binder also affect burn rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 It's possible to make screen mixed BP that makes suitable lift. Search through the forum and see some of the work that DavidF has done around this. Super milling charcoal is quite effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMat Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 (edited) Getting a decent lift charge won't be nearly as much pf a problem as getting a decent burst! You can expect to have the most trouble with the smaller shells (3" or smaller). Even with halfway decent BP, you can get a good lift charge, but many people still need to add a booster of some sort to their burst charge with those smaller shells. Edited May 17 by MadMat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sachinagg Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 (edited) Exactly, Mr. Madmat, in our Indian fireworks industry they all make slow lift charge after that there shells reach decent height. They use flash powder for bursting(max 5") Edited May 17 by sachinagg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zumber Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 40 minutes ago, sachinagg said: Exactly, Mr. Madmat, in our Indian fireworks industry they all make slow lift charge after that there shells reach decent height. They use flash powder for bursting(max 5") They are using ball milled charcoal for their screened mix BP lift. Also KNO3 is milled into very fine powder using flour mill before mixing bp. Unmilled BP lift need to add more in percentage for lifting shell than milled BP lift. Also Flash broken shell is limited only upto 3 inch size. For 5 inch shell Rice hulls BP burst charge is used. Above 3 inch size flash burst is not allowed for factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sachinagg Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 6 hours ago, Zumber said: They are using ball milled charcoal for their screened mix BP lift. Also KNO3 is milled into very fine powder using flour mill before mixing bp. Unmilled BP lift need to add more in percentage for lifting shell than milled BP lift. Also Flash broken shell is limited only upto 3 inch size. For 5 inch shell Rice hulls BP burst charge is used. Above 3 inch size flash burst is not allowed for factory. I can't understand what u want to say, but its confirmed that our fireworks industry makes slow lift powder for proper ignition. Yes they add more in there product. I do dissected 4.5 inch aerial shell,there shell ball contains flash powder. In future I will send u photo/video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zumber Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 40 minutes ago, sachinagg said: I can't understand what u want to say, but its confirmed that our fireworks industry makes slow lift powder for proper ignition. Yes they add more in there product. I do dissected 4.5 inch aerial shell,there shell ball contains flash powder. In future I will send u photo/video. In past years Indian Industry were using screened mix of BP for lift they dont mill KNO3 Sulphur Charcoal together instead of this they were using very fine charcoal, and KNO3 is milled previously Using flour mills. Right now most of reputed industries are using Ball milling lift. According to PESO flash powder is not allowed above 3 inch shell. If you have found 4.5 inch shell that contains flash burst then it is not legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sachinagg Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 I understand and that is right. But I think fireworks company intentionally make ther lift charge slow for perfect ignition in shell fuse. 4.5" Shell from reputed company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zumber Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 2 hours ago, sachinagg said: I understand and that is right. But I think fireworks company intentionally make ther lift charge slow for perfect ignition in shell fuse. 4.5" Shell from reputed company. Not at all. There is no such a relation of burning lift and spolette ignition. Every company applies bp slurry plus coarse Grain of BP at both end of spolette to insure lift ignition and burst ignition. They were using slow lift because of there hugh requirement if lift charge which was unable using ball mill. Thats the reason why they were using screen mix bp and they added in extra amount for shell lift. Commercially they need 100 plus kg lift in a day which is hugh amount and cant be milled within less time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rellim Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 On 5/16/2024 at 5:14 AM, MrCATO said: I've made quite a few rockets now and I'd like to start trying my hand at shells. (Those color and report kits look cool) While I do have a ball mill I recently moved and I don't really have a safe place to mill black powder with it at the moment. I'm looking to 2-4" shells. Is it possible to make suitable screen mixed BP that can lift shells like this? Is red gum better than dextrin for this purpose? You could use the so-called "double-double" method. Mill KnO3 with C at 75:5 ratio. This is very safe and resulting mixture is unignitable. Mill 10:10 S and C. Screen mix the two mixtures at 4:1 ratio. Granulate with 50% alcohol, no binder is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 Probably the best answer is to make the mill work for you, otherwise can you actually buy BP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCATO Posted May 23 Author Share Posted May 23 15 hours ago, rellim said: You could use the so-called "double-double" method. Mill KnO3 with C at 75:5 ratio. This is very safe and resulting mixture is unignitable. Mill 10:10 S and C. Screen mix the two mixtures at 4:1 ratio. Granulate with 50% alcohol, no binder is needed. Never heard of this, sounds like something I might have to try. I got a 4 mesh and 100 mesh screen on the way along with some ceramic media for component milling. I'm tired of using these little mini classifier screens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCATO Posted May 23 Author Share Posted May 23 9 hours ago, Arthur said: Probably the best answer is to make the mill work for you, otherwise can you actually buy BP. Shipping and hazmat fees will make it cost prohibitive for me. My local gun store that stocked reloading supplies recently closed it's doors so buying local doesn't seem to be an option anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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