Dragon99 Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 I have a problem with this orange composition star. Potassium chlorate 1.9g Sodium nitrate 1.9 Charcoal 0.7 Dextrin 0.7 The problem was when add water and alcohol (1:1) it was so sticky and when i cut star and when i dry it it very impossible to dry. So how can i fix it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zumber Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 Sodium nitrate is very hygroscopic and it absorbs water and it dry relatively slowly than other composition. You might use non aquous binding system like parlon( 3 to 4percent) acetone (solvent) Again you should stay away from chlorate if possible use potassium perchlorate than potassium chlorate. There are other formulations for orange colour exists you might give out a try if you can. The formula you posted above seems more yellow than orange, it is simply black powder with yellowish flame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon99 Posted April 17 Author Share Posted April 17 (edited) Thanks and ok. Edited April 17 by Dragon99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zumber Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 Welcome😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMat Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 Hmm... are you sure this is supposed to produce orange? Every orange composition I have seen had a sodium compound for yellow and a strontium compound for red. red+yellow make orange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulphurstan Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 (edited) If you're looking for orange, you could try the veline orange, I found it pretty nice in hue. Edited April 26 by Sulphurstan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sachinagg Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 (edited) On 4/16/2024 at 7:42 PM, Dragon99 said: I have a problem with this orange composition star. Potassium chlorate 1.9g Sodium nitrate 1.9 Charcoal 0.7 Dextrin 0.7 The problem was when add water and alcohol (1:1) it was so sticky and when i cut star and when i dry it it very impossible to dry. So how can i fix it? U will try this it's quite good orange (Chinese composition) Sodium nitrate-15 Strontium nitrate-28 Mgal-18(200mesh) Ti-13( 100 mesh) Redgum-8 Parlon -18 Use acetone. My mistake forget parlon Edited April 28 by sachinagg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zumber Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 10 hours ago, sachinagg said: U will try this it's quite good orange (Chinese composition) Sodium nitrate-15 Strontium nitrate-28 Mgal-18(200mesh) Ti-13( 100 mesh) Redgum-8 Use acetone. For red gum you have to use alcohol to bind star. If acetone is used binder must be parlon. 100 mesh titanium gives tail to orange star and it would become wave star than peony star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sachinagg Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Zumber said: For red gum you have to use alcohol to bind star. If acetone is used binder must be parlon. 100 mesh titanium gives tail to orange star and it would become wave star than peony star. Thanks Mr. Zumber, forget parlon in this composition. Parlon -18. In this star composition mesh size is not written in Ti, I has mixed Ti (40, 60 80, maybe some of 100 mesh) . Not proper remember it's gives tail or peony but quite good orange. Edited April 28 by sachinagg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zumber Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 No doubt that Sodium nitrate plus strontium nitrate gives pretty orange only problem is hygroscopic nature. Water dextrin is usless in this system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sachinagg Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 3 minutes ago, Zumber said: No doubt that Sodium nitrate plus strontium nitrate gives pretty orange only problem is hygroscopic nature. Water dextrin is usless in this system. Respected Mr. Zumber In our condition(hot weather)strontium nitrate works good not creates any problem, but sodium creates little problem for his nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zumber Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 Yeah the problem is during storage and nitrate reaction with magnelium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sachinagg Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 6 minutes ago, Zumber said: Yeah the problem is during storage and nitrate reaction with magnelium. But I face problem with aluminum not with mgal.plz.don't mind (It's my personal experience) , I have stars which I make last in 2014 -2015 (approx 10 year). all are fine no reaction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zumber Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 Sometimes my MgAl reacts with nitrate in presence of water. If it is coated then there will be no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sachinagg Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 23 minutes ago, Zumber said: Sometimes my MgAl reacts with nitrate in presence of water. If it is coated then there will be no problem. Sorry Mr. Zumber I gave half information I always used DM water for making stars and mgal in uncoated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zumber Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 (edited) Whats DM stands for? I have experienced personally with my barium nitrate based green stars with magnelium fuel. Same formulation has heated up three to four times when I was preparing stars with dextrin water binding system thats the reason why I am alert every time when I want to prepare green batch. Here two varieties are present coated and uncoated MgAl. Therotically magnelium is stable with water but practically I have experience four time with my batch. Magnesium water and nitrate/aluminium water reactions are common and here in our country we have stearine coated aluminium which is stable with water dextrin binding system and only problem arises with atomized aluminium with water as it is uncoated. Edited April 28 by Zumber spelling mistakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sachinagg Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 2 hours ago, Zumber said: Whats DM stands for? I have experienced personally with my barium nitrate based green stars with magnelium fuel. Same formulation has heated up three to four times when I was preparing stars with dextrin water binding system thats the reason why I am alert every time when I want to prepare green batch. Here two varieties are present coated and uncoated MgAl. Therotically magnelium is stable with water but practically I have experience four time with my batch. Magnesium water and nitrate/aluminium water reactions are common and here in our country we have stearine coated aluminium which is stable with water dextrin binding system and only problem arises with atomized aluminium with water as it is uncoated. Mr. Zumber u r experienced person that why I discuss with u or when I need help I remember you, i never work with atomized aluminum. DM water stand for Demineralized water. Thanks for sharing your s experience it's good for me further work🙏 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 The metal/nitrate reactions we experience in pyrotechnics are usually promoted by basic environments. I've personally never had an issue with barium or strontium nitrate and any metals directly. If there are additional basic additives, I did have an issue one time. It happened to be with an orange star actually. It had strontium nitrate, sodium oxalate, and magnalium in it and it was heated to try to dry it faster. The stars puffed up like balloons and had a hollow center when they were dry. They worked about as intended with a kind of erratic flight path, but it was still something I wanted to avoid. I think the reason I've never had a direct issue with strontium or barium nitrates is how insoluble the resulting hydroxides are. This just slows down the progression of any adverse reaction. Sodium and potassium do not share the same properties. Still, it's often with additional basic ingredients and often with heat or high surface area metal powders that I've found reactions to be most prevalent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zumber Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 (edited) 10 hours ago, Mumbles said: The metal/nitrate reactions we experience in pyrotechnics are usually promoted by basic environments. I've personally never had an issue with barium or strontium nitrate and any metals directly. If there are additional basic additives, I did have an issue one time. It happened to be with an orange star actually. It had strontium nitrate, sodium oxalate, and magnalium in it and it was heated to try to dry it faster. The stars puffed up like balloons and had a hollow center when they were dry. They worked about as intended with a kind of erratic flight path, but it was still something I wanted to avoid. I think the reason I've never had a direct issue with strontium or barium nitrates is how insoluble the resulting hydroxides are. This just slows down the progression of any adverse reaction. Sodium and potassium do not share the same properties. Still, it's often with additional basic ingredients and often with heat or high surface area metal powders that I've found reactions to be most prevalent. Thank you for this post. Even in absence of basic ( like oxlate) I have faced problem with barium nitrate, sulphur ,magnelium 200 mesh ,parlon ,pvc ,dextrin based green star heated up four times. But without changing formula if I replace Barium nitrate with strontium nitrate for red then I have no issue with same magnelium and water dextrin bound method. Problem only arries with green....stars just warm up if we add water, once we start rolling due to heat released to envirnment after few minutes to hours star started to behave like normal star and it performs well without compramizing colour and its original function. There is no problem at all if magnelium is coated ( may be manufacturer uses potassium dichromate for coating magnelium) Please tell how we deal with potassium dichromate while working, sieving stars, forming powders to pellets that uses dichromated coated metals in it. Dichromate has dangerous rating 4 for health. Edited May 1 by Zumber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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