Beginner rocket tooling?

[FieryCreations]

Is Woody's the go to site? His site is confusing for a new guy. What's the difference between eco, super, regular, hybrid, etc.?

Maybe someone can point me in the right direction. I want to get outfitted for one smaller cheaper rocket, and one much larger one to begin with. Thinking 1/2 4oz and a 3lb? I'd like to be able to make some with headers and some without(So core burner?) Do I need a shell former or rocket heading? I'd rather make everything as basic as possible rather than "the best." A 3D printer plastic heading or shell casing may be good but I think i'd rather make it all from glue and paper if possible. I see Wood sells a rocket "nosecone former." Can I make a heading formed from paper similar to a shell casing?

There are so many options I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars on something I'll regret. I have a 6 ton HF press, and considered upgrading to a 12 or 20 ton. Not sure if one of these sets of toolings is for a press and another is for hand pressing...?

Edited December 20, 2023 by FieryCreations

[ThrownBiscuit]

Eco tooling I believe is short for economy tooling where your choices are Sali which I believe to be short for Salicylate whistle, Cohete which uses shorter tubes than the standard rocket sizes and is pretty forgiving on fuel choice, stinger which uses an offset 90 degree extra port to be spin stabilized and gerb which is a fountain. Super tooling is optimized for black powder core burners and makes a very nice nozzle geometry. Regular is just a standard length set for standard length tubes.  Hybrid is useful for both black powder and whistle but is not the best for either.

I would go with core burners at least until you are confident about the speed of your black powder, they are much more forgiving of fuel weakness.

If you are making cylinder shells, a shell former would be good to have.

I usually use ball shells as my rocket headers, they look kind of funky but they work. I just buy a bunch or pre-made paper hemis and paste them together with even layers of gummed kraft tape. As a difference from shells rather than 1/4" time fuse I stick a small cardboard tube through the base of 1 hemi to the middle portion of shell and secure with some kraft paper and string a few strands of black match. The black match extends into the shell hemi and an inch or so outside of the hemi. I carefully hand drill through the bulkhead of the rocket (turning the bit with my fingers) and I attach the header with the black match over the drilled hole. I use hot glue around the diameter of the rocket tube, wait to solidify and reinforce with some gummed kraft tape.

As for nosecones. I just take one of the cheapest paper plates you can use and cut a segment out of the plate and fold the remainder into a cone which is held together with hot glue. The nose cone is attached to the header with a couple of spots of hot glue.

If you use the press, you will want a tube support. For the BP rockets hand ramming will work well, but will work best with a plastic dead blow mallet, rawhide mallet, or lead mallet. Also a slight misting of moisture in the black powder will help the rocket grain consolidate nicely.

 

[davidh]

In all honesty, I would recommend this: https://www.skylighter.com/collections/rocket-kits/products/4-oz-black-powder-rocket-kit

The tooling looks like it might be made by Greg Boyd, so it's probably pretty good, and contrary to other opinions, Skylighter does sell good products, provides good service, and will do what's needed to make you happy. Beginners can do way worse.

And you don't need a press. I am constantly amused by the people that press black powder rockets. Just buy a good mallet if you want to spend money. https://www.amazon.com/GARLAND-11009-LOADED-RAWHIDE-MALLET/dp/B001DD0332 (shop it around).

As for headings, you can just use a few wraps of notebook paper and some stars or flash, and you're good to go. I'm a big fan of getting good with simple and then going from there.

If you're set on Woody's, get https://www.woodysrocks.com/store/p7/Black_Powder_Coreburner_Rocket_Kits_w%2F_Spindle_Remover.html#/

[FieryCreations]

Thanks for the replies. Was hoping to go with Woodys cause I need the Bp puck die I can't seem to find anywhere else. I bought a small starter kit from Skylighter already and it really didn't teach me much. I have everything but the tooling at this point.

[davidh]

Why do you need a BP die? Corning BP for pyro is a waste of time.

[Boophoenix]

48 minutes ago, davidh said:

Why do you need a BP die? Corning BP for pyro is a waste of time.

Blasphemy!! 😀 Inside story to this comment. 

[FieryCreations]

11 hours ago, davidh said:

Why do you need a BP die? Corning BP for pyro is a waste of time.

It is...? You still have to wet it and screen it though right?

I would also like to be able to use it for muzzleloaders anyway, but I thought corning was necessary for pyro too? My milled BP is unusable. 

[davidh]

There are a bunch of articles floating around on how to make polverone (sometimes called pulverone). Basically wet the decently hot mill dust, make a ball, and shave it through a 4 mesh screen. Dry it quickly and screen out the fines. Corned powder is for flow and volumetric measurement. Well made polverone can beat it in strength.

Edited December 21, 2023 by davidh

[dagabu]

Interesting read. Just a few comments for those that care; Caleb's tooling (Woody's) is my recommendation, price, quality and service. 

Cylinder shells can be made from scrap materials and spiked with any string you have available. Quality of the break will be more dependent on the makers abilities than the materials used. I do sell real Italian Flax string in case you want better control over breaks but 8 ply cotton works OK too.

Any full beverage can will work for a shell former, cut end disks and you have all you need for shell cases. 

Strictly speaking:

Polverone – An Italian term for a hand mixed and granulated black powder typically in proportions around 75:15:10 plus a binder.  Per Fulcanelli in “Traditional Cylinder Shell Construction, Part I” (Pyrotechnica IX, Pyrotechnica Publications, 1984):

 "Polverone (also Rough Powder) - A rough, home-made powder is sometimes used in the manufacture of shells, often called polverone (literally "large powder" or "coarse powder").  This is a sieve-mixed composition of saltpeter, charcoal, sulfur, and dextrin to bind it, made without milling or grinding, dampened and granulated by rubbing through a coarse screen (typically 3- or 4-mesh).  After drying, the powder is re-screened to break up the lumps and divided into a coarser powder that will not pass the granulating screen and a finer powder that does.

The Cohete is just means rocket in Spanish.

I brought the term "Cohete" to the USA by way of the "Festival of Carmen" in Spain and their mass rocket launch just about a decade ago and Caleb (Woody's) designed the tooling. While the fuel can be anything you like, the original idea was to use "green powder" along with a clay nozzle to make enough power to lift a 10 gram salute to 300' but not at a high speed.

This changed over the years to nozzleless rockets using polverone for fuel (75:15:10) and increasing reports to 50 grams each. 

As far as a puck die goes, a section of PVC that has been cut down its length and held together with hose clamps, can be a great die! Put a sleeve of paper inside and pour epoxy inside for the piston and you should get many pucks before you are ready to get some DOM Aluminum or have a friend with a lathe make a die set for you.

Lastly: Hand ramming is fine for customary BP rockets but lacks in several areas. One thing not spoken of is the speed at which the BP burns with different compaction and I am here to tell you that after watching over two thousand hand made, hand pounded BP rockets fly, I can reliably foretell the speed and height of that rocket just by looking at the maker!

A roofer will have consistent strokes on the hammer, thay can pound rockets all day long and they are rather anemic whey they fly... Their children's rockets fly fast and high! The consistency of the fuel grain will vary as the rocket is rammed. 

Using a press will result in the same thrust profile, it will lift the same payload rocket after rocket. The rocket will climb to the same height and do so at the same speed each and every time.   
 

Enjoy making rockets, see you all at BIR in August, we will have a beautiful rocket line to shoot at and we may even get the chance to fly some larger rockets!