PillaDoubleG Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 I've noticed that a lot of star compositions have either PVC or Parlon in them. Since I can't get my hands on Parlon, I wanted to check if PVC pipes are 100% pure PVC and can be used for firework stars (once they have been milled down). I've skimmed through other videos, and I remember some comments saying that pvc pipes are not 100% PVC. Thought it would be worth a shot asking on here, if someone else has tried to make PVC powder themselves. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MicroGram Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 (edited) Nope, not the same. Why cant you find parlon? Were do you live? Edited November 28, 2023 by MicroGram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmjlab Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 They have a percentage of Polyvinyl Chloride, but the problem is the plasticisers, and other additives which prevent breaking it down to a useable powder, inhibit burn, and make it pretty difficult to calculate the amount of PVC actually added to the composition. If you had access to the starting components for PVC..... But then I guess you wouldn't be asking....! :-). Id also be curious where Parlon is inaccessible to you? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 If fireworks ingredients are not available to you then try a wholesale polymer supplier for a 10 pound or kilo sample -even if you pay for it. Factories that make PVC articles buy raw PVC and compound it on site normally (plumbing pipe and swimming pool liner are both PVC but their compounds are very different) Soft products may be down to 40% pvc, hard products may be up to 80% pvc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted November 29, 2023 Share Posted November 29, 2023 Many years ago I worked at a factory that had PVC delivered by tanker truck. Sadly that firm has gone. Sadly the world wide hobbyist demand for pvc wouldn't amount to a tanker truck each year. Getting some supplier company to sell 5 kilos would be impossible. Maybe the usual pyro places have a stock of some chems, but certainly not all chems are retail in all countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PillaDoubleG Posted November 29, 2023 Author Share Posted November 29, 2023 18 hours ago, MicroGram said: Nope, not the same. Why cant you find parlon? Were do you live? While I could very likely order Parlon or PVC powder off of ebay, I live in Serbia, and since were not in the EU, when it comes to obscure chemicals or pyro-dedicated chemicals, it can be fairly hard to find a supplier. Plus, a lot of chemicals can actually be bought, but you have to own a company to order them, and if you have a company, your company specifically has to be related to the chemical you're buying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted November 29, 2023 Share Posted November 29, 2023 There may be a pyro supplier in your area, they are not usually in directories! Maybe there is a company that makes PVC mouldings (pipes, sheets etc) who could let you have some from a spill or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmjlab Posted November 29, 2023 Share Posted November 29, 2023 Well you could certainly try ground up PVC it's not like any of us know 100% for fact that it would NOT work. It probably would require a composition with high temperature, and a color where a little sodium contamination wouldn't completely overpower the color (like green or maybe red). Are you even able to get Barium or Strontium salts to make color compositions? Another thought, maybe some research on how much PVC is in PVC glue, as it would be easy to add that to a composition..... May even contribute as a binder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PillaDoubleG Posted November 29, 2023 Author Share Posted November 29, 2023 1 hour ago, Arthur said: There may be a pyro supplier in your area, they are not usually in directories! Maybe there is a company that makes PVC mouldings (pipes, sheets etc) who could let you have some from a spill or something. I have not heard of any pyro suppliers in my country honestly... They do exist in neighboring countries, but its too far away. But that PVC advice is a good call. Will try it if I can! 4 minutes ago, cmjlab said: Well you could certainly try ground up PVC it's not like any of us know 100% for fact that it would NOT work. It probably would require a composition with high temperature, and a color where a little sodium contamination wouldn't completely overpower the color (like green or maybe red). Are you even able to get Barium or Strontium salts to make color compositions? Another thought, maybe some research on how much PVC is in PVC glue, as it would be easy to add that to a composition..... May even contribute as a binder. Well yeah, grounded up PVC pipes would probably still give the wanted effect, but it definitely wouldn't be as good as pyro-grade PVC. I am able to get barium salts, but I haven't yet found a source of strontium. The problem there is that I'm kind of afraid to work with straight up nitric acid, but I will probably attempt in the future (with safety in mind). That PVC glue suggestion is also a good call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PillaDoubleG Posted November 30, 2023 Author Share Posted November 30, 2023 Another thing, can I ask a completely different question in the same thread, because I don't want to keep flooding this topic with question only from me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmjlab Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 Better to separate different topics into separate threads if you want someone to see it sooner, as they may not know much about your PVC question. I don't think there's such a thing as opening to many threads if you have questions that aren't answered with a simple search, even then info changes over time, so no harm / no foul - send it! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MicroGram Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 (edited) Being in Serbia/Eastern Europe you can get any chemical you want. Not being in the EU is a bonus there. Less regulations. While you may not have local retailers/distributors that cater to Pyro, there's plenty of chemical companies that will sell you just about anything within reason. Keep searching, keep asking. Don't ever ask a company if they're "allowed" to sell you something. Just tell them what you want, give contact info and ask for a quote. Poland and Czech Republic in particular have quite a few chem companies. Also you're relatively to close China. Start a working relationship with a company in one of these places and they will get you whatever your heart desires. Edited November 30, 2023 by MicroGram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MicroGram Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 Also there's a fellow here who's offered to source chemicals before; He's from Bosnia. Maybe he can help you. No idea if hes reputable or what but perhaps you and he can figure something out. His name is Mux. He's on the discord channel sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PillaDoubleG Posted November 30, 2023 Author Share Posted November 30, 2023 1 hour ago, MicroGram said: Being in Serbia/Eastern Europe you can get any chemical you want. Not being in the EU is a bonus there. Less regulations. While you may not have local retailers/distributors that cater to Pyro, there's plenty of chemical companies that will sell you just about anything within reason. Keep searching, keep asking. Don't ever ask a company if they're "allowed" to sell you something. Just tell them what you want, give contact info and ask for a quote. Poland and Czech Republic in particular have quite a few chem companies. Also you're relatively to close China. Start a working relationship with a company in one of these places and they will get you whatever your heart desires. While true, some chemicals are still either too dangerous or too obscure for companies to produce. However, there are a lot of bosnian-chinese and serbian-chinese companies making all sorts of chemicals (less serbian-chinese companies tho)... They have chlorates, metal powders, PVC and so on. I will ask some of these bosnian-chinese companies to see if it's possible to ship to Serbia, since they have a bigger selection. 58 minutes ago, MicroGram said: Also there's a fellow here who's offered to source chemicals before; He's from Bosnia. Maybe he can help you. No idea if hes reputable or what but perhaps you and he can figure something out. His name is Mux. He's on the discord channel sometimes. Interesting... Could you send me the discord server you are talking about? I haven't heard of it before. Also thanks for helping me out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PillaDoubleG Posted November 30, 2023 Author Share Posted November 30, 2023 Another thing, there literally is a company IN MY CITY (about 25.000 people, so kind of remote) producing most of the chemicals I want, but it still requires you to own a company purchase the chemicals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MicroGram Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 In some cases just printing up some business cards and showing up will do the trick. If that's not enough start a company. I'm not sure what kind of regulatory framework exists where you live, but in North America any individual can easily start/register a small company, usually called a LLC. Limited Liability Company. Costs a few bucks and can be done online. All of that should be completely unnecessary tho. Just keep searching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MicroGram Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 And sorry, I cant seem to invite people to the Discord Server. I don't have the permission/role. The server address used to be linked right on the front page before the server update, but I don't see it now. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PillaDoubleG Posted December 1, 2023 Author Share Posted December 1, 2023 19 hours ago, MicroGram said: In some cases just printing up some business cards and showing up will do the trick. If that's not enough start a company. I'm not sure what kind of regulatory framework exists where you live, but in North America any individual can easily start/register a small company, usually called a LLC. Limited Liability Company. Costs a few bucks and can be done online. All of that should be completely unnecessary tho. Just keep searching. I could do that, but honestly it's a lot of hassle for some chemicals... If i really need them, I'll probably just make them. But I'm still thankful for the advice! 19 hours ago, MicroGram said: And sorry, I cant seem to invite people to the Discord Server. I don't have the permission/role. The server address used to be linked right on the front page before the server update, but I don't see it now. Sorry. No worry, I'll continue the search on my own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PillaDoubleG Posted December 2, 2023 Author Share Posted December 2, 2023 An update, I actually have found a website selling basically all of the chemicals I need. It's pyrohobby.ru, and they seem to have everything I need, plus they can actually ship to Serbia... My only worry is if it will actually arrive, since Russia's still in a war... Has anybody ordered off of this site? Since it's probably my only shot of getting these super hard to get chemicals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustralianPyromaniac Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 PVC pipes cannot be used as they have CaCO3 to make them white, this destroys any color you're aiming for, you'll only get orange. PVC pipe cement can be used though, it is almost pure PVC in MEK. However, the mixture is very wet because of the PVC cement, and quite challenging to cut. The blue is very good. Strontium carbonate can be sourced from pottery suppliers, nitrate is better, but with chlorate the colour is strong. Potassium Chlorate - 48 Copper Oxychloride (can be bought as a fungicide or synthesized) - 10 Lactose - 10.5 Clear PVC cement - 28.5 Dextrin - 3 (optional) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSidewinder Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 On 11/30/2023 at 5:47 PM, MicroGram said: And sorry, I cant seem to invite people to the Discord Server. I don't have the permission/role. The server address used to be linked right on the front page before the server update, but I don't see it now. Sorry. I edited the relevant Announcement to highlight the Discord link; you can check the green-boxed one on the front-page sidebar. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PillaDoubleG Posted December 5, 2023 Author Share Posted December 5, 2023 On 12/4/2023 at 1:45 PM, AustralianPyromaniac said: PVC pipes cannot be used as they have CaCO3 to make them white, this destroys any color you're aiming for, you'll only get orange. PVC pipe cement can be used though, it is almost pure PVC in MEK. However, the mixture is very wet because of the PVC cement, and quite challenging to cut. The blue is very good. Strontium carbonate can be sourced from pottery suppliers, nitrate is better, but with chlorate the colour is strong. Potassium Chlorate - 48 Copper Oxychloride (can be bought as a fungicide or synthesized) - 10 Lactose - 10.5 Clear PVC cement - 28.5 Dextrin - 3 (optional) Interesting recipe, will try it! (if I can get the chemicals of course.) And thanks for the tips as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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