THEONE Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 I have seen in various videos on youtube that the burst charge of commercial canister shells are using something like flash (if not flash). Anybody knows what actually is and what is the composition ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 Discounting 70/30 flash there are enough flash compounds to fill a good book. There are chlorate, perc and nitrate flashes, several metals could be used and some organic and inorganic fuels. Huge numbers of comps of history were based on the availability and price of ingredients. All flash comps are dangerous but (esp from the chlorate era) some were even more dangerous than we would now use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEONE Posted October 30, 2022 Author Share Posted October 30, 2022 To give you an example, check out this video at the first 3 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zumber Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 To give you an example, check out this video at the first 3 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKF0n-s-Vz4The video you shared is from Sivakasi Fireworks factories from India....It uses potsium nitrate sulphur and 999 grade aluminium based flash powders. As potasium perchlorate and potasium chlorate is strictly banned to use for fireworks in country.Now A days Barium nitrate is also planned to ban but still dispute is going on in court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mabuse00 Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 (edited) So we're talking about cakes. In this case pure nitrate flash would work well. You could probably even spice it up with a percentage of perchlorate. I was under the impression that nitrate/Al is not very storage stable. It might heat up if it gets wet. Do they actually use it in commercial stuff? Can you elaborate "999 grade aluminum"?Judging from their hands it looks like bright flake Al. What a mess... Edited October 30, 2022 by mabuse00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zumber Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 So we're talking about cakes. In this case pure nitrate flash would work well. You could probably even spice it up with a percentage of perchlorate. I was under the impression that nitrate/Al is not very storage stable. It might heat up if it gets wet. Do they actually use it in commercial stuff? Can you elaborate "999 grade aluminum"?Judging from their hands it looks like bright flake Al. What a mess...No even a single gram of perchlorate isnt available....except for match and whistle and it neeeds special licence and they get limited stock.....for all other fireworks effects it is strictly banned...till date today in order to increase shelf life formulations are designed using barium nitrate based alonghwith other nitrates....for flash combination of barium nitrate potasium nitrate sulphur and aluminium is also used as kno3 absorbs little moisture. Aluminium graded according to mesh sizes and types...222 333 555 666 999 00...999 is finest aluminium used for flash and sound effect 333 222 are for flower pots ground spinner 666 for bright sparks torches etc....00 is indian blackhead famous in world....For more details i provide company linkhttps://www.mepco.co.in/products/aluminium-31/aluminium-alloy-powder-27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 Several members here have mentioned using whistle mix as a booster, there probably are 100 whistle/BP mixes that have been used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrokid Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 In my opinion, the real art of the heavy flash broken Chinese shells is the star composition and priming system which allow the stars to stay lit after such a strong explosion. It is easy to make a strong burst charge. It is more difficult to design a system which retains the strong/loud breaking characteristics and has good ignition and visual attributes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zumber Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 Several members here have mentioned using whistle mix as a booster, there probably are 100 whistle/BP mixes that have been used. Yes but in our country no one uses whistle as a booster....Upto 3 inch size shell slow nitrate based flash is used as a burst charge above 3 inch shell nitrate bases black powder on rice hulls is uses alongwith teaspoon on nitrate base flash as a booster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zumber Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 In my opinion, the real art of the heavy flash broken Chinese shells is the star composition and priming system which allow the stars to stay lit after such a strong explosion. It is easy to make a strong burst charge. It is more difficult to design a system which retains the strong/loud breaking characteristics and has good ignition and visual attributes. Yes same here after several years of experience and trial and error here modified star priming and stars that can sustain and stay remains lit even after hard flash burst.....Pls visit my channel to see perchlorate and chlorate free stars and flash broken shells.https://youtube.com/channel/UCRpENrI53hLVBur9KNfUnHg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingkama Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 I understand that many do not know the difference between flash Powder and breaking charge, so no one knows the difference between a report and a shell.The flash burst charges are photoflash mixtures, that is, little oxidizer and a lot of metal. Both metal and oxidant are always of various types and meshes because basically the purpose is to create A cloud of gas and metal in flames, with a fair amount of free oxygen.Imo the eBay result are with kclo3 and Brilliant aluminum and pyro in varying proportions, somehow I found that the Chinese use mixtures with mgal and kclo4, some use both kclo3 and kclo4 with mgal bright aluminum and pyro.Someone else prefers to add coal or sulfur, others add Bano3 and less chloro salts to use more mix and get a depth effect in the break sound, and much oxigen. So this Is why to anyone discover how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingkama Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 (edited) I understand that many do not know the difference between flash Powder and breaking charge, so no one knows the difference between a report and a shell.The flash burst charges are photoflash mixtures, that is, little oxidizer and a lot of metal. Both metal and oxidant are always of various types and meshes because basically the purpose is to create A cloud of gas and metal in flames, with a fair amount of free oxygen.Imo the best result are with kclo3 and Brilliant aluminum and pyro in varying proportions, somehow I found that the Chinese use mixtures with mgal and kclo4, some use both kclo3 and kclo4 with mgal bright aluminum and pyro.Someone else prefers to add coal or sulfur, others add Bano3 and less chloro salts to use more mix and get a depth effect in the break sound, and much oxigen. So this Is why to anyone discover how. Edited October 31, 2022 by kingkama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 Burst or break charges vary from BP with as much whistle or flash powder in small items to crude coarse BP in larger items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmjlab Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 Yes but in our country no one uses whistle as a booster....Upto 3 inch size shell slow nitrate based flash is used as a burst charge above 3 inch shell nitrate bases black powder on rice hulls is uses alongwith teaspoon on nitrate base flash as a booster.Are you granulating the nitrate flash in sub-3" shells to break them? Or using a flash bag of some sort? I hadn't thought to try just slow flash for breaking a small shell, though I've used up to 50/50 black powder and slow flash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richtee Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 I guess there’s no OSHA in India Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zumber Posted November 3, 2022 Share Posted November 3, 2022 Are you granulating the nitrate flash in sub-3" shells to break them? Or using a flash bag of some sort? I hadn't thought to try just slow flash for breaking a small shell, though I've used up to 50/50 black powder and slow flash.No Flash in powder form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmjlab Posted November 3, 2022 Share Posted November 3, 2022 Okay thanks. I'll have to give it a try sometime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zumber Posted November 4, 2022 Share Posted November 4, 2022 Okay thanks. I'll have to give it a try sometimeOkay but you should work on your prime to sustain your stars lit because of flash burst. Make prime slow and use more prime to prime stars.....For instance per 100 gm batch of star use 40 gm prime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmjlab Posted November 5, 2022 Share Posted November 5, 2022 Appreciate the tip. Id probably start with rolling a charcoal streamer over some stars to ensure "critical velocity", but I do have the benefit of making chlorate stars. In fact I purchased a decent size batch of Perc and Chlorate to combine and use as a base oxidizer to speed up several colored star formulas. My intent is to have them light slightly easier, burn a little faster, and obtain better color; without the hyper sensitivity concerns. So I've found that replacing a portion of Perchlorate with chlorate seems to help in some colored stars CharlesOf course they will still be primed.... Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zumber Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 Appreciate the tip. Id probably start with rolling a charcoal streamer over some stars to ensure "critical velocity", but I do have the benefit of making chlorate stars. In fact I purchased a decent size batch of Perc and Chlorate to combine and use as a base oxidizer to speed up several colored star formulas. My intent is to have them light slightly easier, burn a little faster, and obtain better color; without the hyper sensitivity concerns. So I've found that replacing a portion of Perchlorate with chlorate seems to help in some colored stars CharlesOf course they will still be primed.... CharlesAlso take care of chlorate sulphur imcompatibility..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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