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Fire Crystals / colored flames


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#1 6afraidof7

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Posted 01 May 2022 - 09:04 PM

I got my daughter the book Chemical Magic to help spur her interests in pyro as well as chemistry. In the book there is a section with formulas regarding the fire crystals(colored flame) that you can throw in a fire for colored flames. There is very little direction in the book and a little difficult to search for good consistent information on the application/creation methods. We have tried just throwing the mixed combo on the fire and it burned quick. Tried a thin wax puck with a 50/50 mix of the wax and combo but it didn't work that great. Thought about coating a pine cone 'leave' with the mix as well as a stir stick or a wic. Right now we have some drying that we added 5% dextrin to and granulated through a 8 mesh screen.

 

Does anyone have any experience with the fire crystals. tips, suggestions or ideas on how best to make some up? We have had a lot fun working together and experimenting on these. Are the crystals more like a micro star?

 

The mix we are focusing now to get our system down is:

1-Antimony Trisulfide

2-Sulfur

6-KNO3

 

 



#2 Arthur

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Posted 02 May 2022 - 02:32 AM

A few years ago I was aware of fire salts on the UK market, for throwing into a camp fire, but never bought them. The formula seemed to be purely mixed copper salts, which because of the flame environment burned with mixed blue and green flames. Common salt (NaCl) should help with a yellow colour and strontium salts should help with a red colour. 

 

Remember, however, that the colour part of a pyro formula is usually about 10 -15% of the total and with a bonfire usually weighing more than a kilo to get a big effect you will need big quantities.


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#3 Arthur

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Posted 02 May 2022 - 05:22 AM

Perhaps you should consider the classic flame colours of he usual elements.

 

Red - Strontium

Orange - Calcium

Yellow  -Sodium

Green  - Barium

Blue   - Copper

Violet (weak) Potassium.

 

Colours are usually enhanced with chloride ions (except yellow/sodium)

 

A fire or flame will already have fuel and oxidiser so your powder should only contain the colour generating species.


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#4 robbo

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Posted 02 May 2022 - 08:05 AM

I read somewhere that the commercial packages were PVC + color donor (in this case, CuO).  I have read that others use fragments of garden hose for the PVC...


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#5 SharkWhisperer

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Posted 02 May 2022 - 10:32 AM

Well, I'm holding a package of campfire colorant "Mystic Fire", the ingredients listed include: Cupric sulfate, Cupric chloride, and PVC. So, blues and greens, and your PVC for chlorine. But I really don't think this is anywhere near what the OP was attempting.

 

Arthur, this is just a colorant addition, not a new pyro comp so it's not necessary to add 10-15% mass to your estimated 1 kg+ mass of a campfire...

 

The packet I'm holding is 25g total.

 

Now, I think so far these answers are nowhere in the vicinity of what the OP is attempting. The "Fire Crystals" OP mentioned, iirc from that book long ago, have little to do with making long-lasting pretty color additions to campfire flames. They're a bit more, uh, energetic.... A clue might be his inclusion of a high level of oxidizer!

 

OP, what is your goal? The formulation you're using is a toxic version (antimony is very toxic & you really really don't want your kid breathing this) of the smoke bombs sold at walmart and hardware stores for flushing out rodent holes, except your version is more oxidant heavy. Sounds like you bought a bunch of pyro chems but don't really have any experience with them. Your post history supports this. Hopefully you at least know what is toxic and what chems do not play well together.

 

Maybe introducing your kid to pyro is something you should wait to do until you yourself have a firmer grasp on the basics yourself? Sounds like the blind willingly following the (dangerously) blind. Your child should probably not be your study partner when learning the basics of working with sometimes toxic chems (sometimes very toxic) that are meant to burn and explode.


Edited by SharkWhisperer, 02 May 2022 - 10:40 AM.

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#6 MadMat

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Posted 02 May 2022 - 10:49 AM

For colors don't forget lithium compounds. lithium produces a beautiful pink/magenta flame


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#7 6afraidof7

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Posted 02 May 2022 - 10:33 PM

Thanks for the help and suggestions. It is just colored flames, the book refers to them as crystals in some text. As it turns out, the ingredients are quite simple and it is no where near as complex as the book let's it on to be. Glad these formulas aren't mass produced. The formula posted is pretty tame in comparison to several others, which would be more energetic. I did find some of what I was looking for, from the answers here, thanks again.



#8 Arthur

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Posted 03 May 2022 - 02:10 AM

Many times the available old print sources deliberately hid the simplicity of a compound. 






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