Charcoal - PHEW!

[FlareLauncher]

Everybody likes to happen upon a noob question that can post their opinion or knowledge on. Allow me to provide some fuel for the fire. I have a really dumb question;

Is there a magical answer to how do I transfer airfloat Paulowina from the baggie to my container, so I can weigh it out for BP? It makes the nicest, fastest BP and serves me very well. Unfortunately I need to repaint and redecorate after every 'pour' and have only learned how to slow down and minimize the disaster. Any fresh ideas?

Bill

[pyrokid]

1) fume hood

 

2) work with messy powders outdoors

 

3) pre-weigh multiple batches per instance

[FlareLauncher]

1) fume hood

 

2) work with messy powders outdoors

 

3) pre-weigh multiple batches per instance

See? I THOUGHT I Was missing something simple, pre-weighing is an excellent idea. I can make little baggies of charcoal up in advance at the proper weight. Thanks. Anyone else?

[Arthur]

Use a plastic spoon to move fine powders.

 

If you make BP then precrumble your charcoal to (say) 20 mesh then weigh batches out. Add some minutes in the mill if needed to let the mill do the milling with the lid closed.

 

IMO (and only that) charcoal should be made and crumbled to about 10 mesh then packed for storage til needed, certainly keeping fine powders is likely to promote mess.

However you should not be doing pyro in a decorated room. A simple workshop is a good place, 4 walls and a bench is all you need.

[FlareLauncher]

Use a plastic spoon to move fine powders.

 

If you make BP then precrumble your charcoal to (say) 20 mesh then weigh batches out. Add some minutes in the mill if needed to let the mill do the milling with the lid closed.

 

IMO (and only that) charcoal should be made and crumbled to about 10 mesh then packed for storage til needed, certainly keeping fine powders is likely to promote mess.

However you should not be doing pyro in a decorated room. A simple workshop is a good place, 4 walls and a bench is all you need.

Good thought about the mesh size, unfortunately I bought it super fine. And the part about the 'decorated room' was facetious. I meant it made a mess in my shop! But thanks for good counsel, appreciated.

[Arthur]

There is no reason why a cardboard box and a polythene bag shouldn't be cajoled into a glove box with the aid of some gaffer tape (duct tape) and some oversize gauntlets. Keep the mess in the box and just burn it or trash it when it's too dirty for further use. Search google for "laboratory glove box" and select images, everything is the price of a car or small house but those boxes are for serious work, for home chemical weighing a cardboard box and some polythene sheet will be fine and contain the mess)

 

If you make charcoal, mill some of it and sieve through a pile of plastic sandwich boxes each with an appropriate mesh screen in the bottom (use a soldering iron) shake it for a while then let it stand and tip each cut out separately into separate pots for use later.

 

The cheapest wood is usually demolition lumber (2x4s from roofs or floors?) it's typically pine and usually free for collecting. Pine is the preferred timber for pretty sparks and tails. Usually demo lumber is dry enough to cook immediately!

[FlareLauncher]

There is no reason why a cardboard box and a polythene bag shouldn't be cajoled into a glove box with the aid of some gaffer tape (duct tape) and some oversize gauntlets. Keep the mess in the box and just burn it or trash it when it's too dirty for further use. Search google for "laboratory glove box" and select images, everything is the price of a car or small house but those boxes are for serious work, for home chemical weighing a cardboard box and some polythene sheet will be fine and contain the mess)

 

If you make charcoal, mill some of it and sieve through a pile of plastic sandwich boxes each with an appropriate mesh screen in the bottom (use a soldering iron) shake it for a while then let it stand and tip each cut out separately into separate pots for use later.

 

The cheapest wood is usually demolition lumber (2x4s from roofs or floors?) it's typically pine and usually free for collecting. Pine is the preferred timber for pretty sparks and tails. Usually demo lumber is dry enough to cook immediately!

Excellent thoughts, Arthur. Like a sandblasting box. Thank You!

[snapper]

move slowly when scooping, pouring and measuring charcoal. This helps reduce airborne dust also running it in the mill by itself for a half hour to make it ultra fine will make it self packing and far far less fluffy and it packs down.

[Arthur]

Cardboard box is just to mitigate light dust. If you have better then use it!

[MadMat]

I don't worry about getting my BP charcoal any finer than say 40 mesh. It is going to be ballmilled once all is mixed together so it really doesn't need to be "airfloat". Slightly coarser charcoal is a lot easier to weigh/transfer etc. The only possible problem is that it increases the ball milling time 10-15 minutes. If this idea really bothers you, just ballmill your measured out charcoal by itself and then add the KNO3 and sulfur

Edited December 2, 2021 by MadMat

[FlareLauncher]

MadMat this is sound. I bought some air float Paulownia I need to use up, but youre right. I mill it like crazy anyhow! Ill have to shop for some good coarser mesh charcoal again soon. I only have a couple pounds left of the air float. I really am partial to the Paulownia, however.

[Arthur]

Pawlonia is a well regarded wood for firework charcoal, and in some places it's an irremovable weed so not only is it available but the wood should be cheap, the charcoal maybe less cheap! Remember that for common fireworks available for purchase (pro or retail) the aim first is cheap ingredients, competition fireworks not so!

[FlareLauncher]

Youre correct it is a little pricier than the other kinds of charcoal. It has also made an absolutely profound difference in my black powder! I dont use as much powder as you guys who launched 2 and 3 (or bigger!) inch shells. My pyrotechnics are almost completely limited to my 37 mm flare launcher and whatever Im shooting out of it. So in my case, less is more. But thanks!

[MadMat]

I make my own charcoal and use willow or red cedar exclusively. This is an easy decision for me since I have these tress all around me. I've never tried using pawlonia wood, but the BP I make with my willow or cedar charcoal has never disappointed One additional thing I have found out; if you use wood that is partially rotted to make charcoal, the resulting BP is significantly faster than charcoal made from sound wood.

Edited December 12, 2021 by MadMat

[FlareLauncher]

Ive never given serious thought to making my own charcoal. When I first started out, I was buying skylighter charcoal, and having abysmal results. I finally decided to try the Pawolina, and its absolutely awesome! If I can continue to find a good supply of that I will continue to use it, however the next batches I buy will not be Airfloat. What a mess! And hell, I ball mill it like crazy anyhow. But thanks, Mad Matt. Good counsel.

[MadMat]

One happy thing about buying a coarser grade of charcoal: It's usually cheaper!

[Guest]

I have noticed that milling charcoal by itself for a very long time does reduce the volume a lot. It seems much more dense and less "airfloaty". (Does this affect it's performance?)

 

At the other end of the spectrum- for me, the coarser grades are the charcoal from parts of the tree that are more dense. If I get a bunch of 12-20 mesh, and run it through the grinder a few more times, what remains 12-20 must be pretty hard. I love those really soft, punky pieces that barely make a sound going through the grinder and instantly turn to airfloat. That's gotta be the best. I would be hard pressed to collect any appreciable quantity of +40 mesh from my willow charcoal. It would mostly all grind itself through the screens, it's so soft. Handling would destroy the rest.

 

Whatever you choose, I have found there's no way practical or efficient way to eliminate ALL the mess. You can wear gloves, move slowly, and transfer it like how a tap beer is poured. Gently down the side, not sloshed all in... and use 91% iso to clean up. But beware if you have cracks in your hands, the alcohol will drive that stuff in so deep it's like you tattooed those lines in. Bag balm before starting work will fill in the deep cracks, preventing the charcoal from getting way in there and then my hands are only black for 3 days instead of all week.

 

The charcoal dust is a good indication of how other chemicals' dust will move and accumulate over time, so I see it as good practice anyway.

[Arthur]

Different charcoals have different uses. In the UK Willow is the established charcoal for power but pine charcoal is favoured for sparkly tails.

Pawlonia is a fast charcoal, favoured where it grows as a weed but impossibly expensive in England. Pine is available world wide as it's a prime construction wood so rather that dry your own wait foe someone else to dry it (as timbers) then reclaim some demolition lumber.

[FlareLauncher]

Guest, very insightful! We used bag balm in the ER where our hands might get washed 50 times in 10 hours and would literally crack and split. Really good stuff. And pouring like a rap beer is smart too. Thanks.

[FlareLauncher]

Arthur I never would have thought that there was so very much to charcoal - but of course there is. Ive actually yet to try willow and will find a good source to pick up a few pounds. The Pauwolina IS really fast but I need to learn applications for fast vs. strong powder. As the name implies I am a flare launcher, primarily (37 mm) and not nearly as sophisticated as most of yall. Even for me, still much to learn after decades of tomfoolery. Thank You!

[Arthur]

Willow seems to be in short supply in the States. The lore of the old powder makers was "willow that grows quickly by water from the diameter of a mans thumb to the diameter of his upper arm". Big log willow makes slower powder. Unless you can find a grove of willow trees that can be cut a bit you are stuck. However pawlonia is apparently a weed/invasive species in some places in the States so finding some should find you a small crop each year.

Get lost in the rabbit hole that is http://www.wichitabuggywhip.com/ lots of good info from a USA viewpoint. Either make a mill that will turn enough lead balls or buy ceramic media, or buy a two drum mill and only use one drum.

[MadMat]

The exact species of willow best for BP is black willow. Yes, they usually grow around water. I am lucky to have a grove of them growing around a pond on this farm.

[Arthur]

My suggestion is that pyros should have two or three charcoals available and be aware of what charcoal makes which products best. Likewise powder, a moderate stock of three or four grades (mesh cuts) of good powder is a very useful starter for many items.

[justvisiting]

Guest, yes milling the charcoal by itself (not with lead) eliminates the tendency for flyaway particles to become airborne, and the volume is greatly reduced as well. This makes for the fastest possible black powder, compared to milling black powder with charcoal that is not pre-milled. Even balsa charcoal, which is notoriously fluffy, will become as dense as willow charcoal after extended milling.

 

Charcoal is like sponge toffee in the way they are both full of pores. Milling breaks down the cells. Once the cells are broken down, charcoal no longer tends to float away when disturbed. Charcoal is best milled with small dense (not lead) media. Milling 40-20 mesh charcoal with potassium nitrate and sulfur is what most people do to make decent powder, but equally decent powder can be made by milling the components singly. When BP is milled as a complete mixture, the charcoal is protected from being milled superfine by being dispersed throughout the load so that it can 'hide' from the media. This is not an issue for most people, if they have a safe place to run a mill that has potential to explode while in operation.

 

I use stainless steel media about the size of peas to mill my charcoal, and it works very well. Lead wears too fast when milling ONLY charcoal, and ceramic is far less efficient.

[pyrokid]

Guest, yes milling the charcoal by itself (not with lead) eliminates the tendency for flyaway particles to become airborne, and the volume is greatly reduced as well. This makes for the fastest possible black powder, compared to milling black powder with charcoal that is not pre-milled. Even balsa charcoal, which is notoriously fluffy, will become as dense as willow charcoal after extended milling.

 

Charcoal is like sponge toffee in the way they are both full of pores. Milling breaks down the cells. Once the cells are broken down, charcoal no longer tends to float away when disturbed. Charcoal is best milled with small dense (not lead) media. Milling 40-20 mesh charcoal with potassium nitrate and sulfur is what most people do to make decent powder, but equally decent powder can be made by milling the components singly. When BP is milled as a complete mixture, the charcoal is protected from being milled superfine by being dispersed throughout the load so that it can 'hide' from the media. This is not an issue for most people, if they have a safe place to run a mill that has potential to explode while in operation.

 

I use stainless steel media about the size of peas to mill my charcoal, and it works very well. Lead wears too fast when milling ONLY charcoal, and ceramic is far less efficient.

Just visiting, could you please share your mill jar diameter and jar speed? Do you add any charcoal to the nitrate or sulfur to manage clumping?

 

Why is it that ceramic media is less efficient?