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Tigertail-plus?


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#1 Uarbor

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Posted 10 October 2021 - 10:01 AM

I am getting ready to make a new batch of Tiger Tail Stars. I want to add spherical titanium. I want them to burn very brightly. Is 5% added titanium enough or should I go for 10?

#2 Uarbor

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Posted 11 October 2021 - 06:46 PM

Well I just did seven and a half percent. I did 5% last time and it was nice. When they are dry in about 4 days I will post up a video

#3 Arthur

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Posted 12 October 2021 - 11:16 AM

Sometimes no-one knows the answer til they've tried it.



#4 justvisiting

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Posted 12 October 2021 - 11:57 AM

4 days doesn't seem very long for those stars to be completely dry. Were they cut or pressed? 



#5 Uarbor

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Posted 12 October 2021 - 01:43 PM

Sometimes no-one knows the answer til they've tried it.

there is no actual recipe in the first place. I searched all over but I have heard people mention just simply adding some titanium does wonders. 5% was beautiful 10% seemed crazy. But my Rockets are going higher and higher we could barely even see the Tiger Tail on the last one.

Edited by Uarbor, 12 October 2021 - 01:44 PM.


#6 Uarbor

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Posted 12 October 2021 - 01:48 PM

4 days doesn't seem very long for those stars to be completely dry. Were they cut or pressed? 

they are cut stars and they are the smallest I have ever made. I dry them in a modified food dehydrator. 2 days or so with no heat and then when I can pull one out and it is noticeably light that's when I turn on the heat. Works fantastic and activates the binder like crazy. Plus I make sure I only barely wet the composition just enough. Actually not quite enough then I let it temper in and then usually it becomes enough at that point if that makes any sense. And of course the dehydrator is in an old dog house at the end of a hundred foot cord in the back lot far from any people.

Edited by Uarbor, 12 October 2021 - 01:51 PM.


#7 SharkWhisperer

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Posted 12 October 2021 - 11:16 PM

they are cut stars and they are the smallest I have ever made. I dry them in a modified food dehydrator. 2 days or so with no heat and then when I can pull one out and it is noticeably light that's when I turn on the heat. Works fantastic and activates the binder like crazy. Plus I make sure I only barely wet the composition just enough. Actually not quite enough then I let it temper in and then usually it becomes enough at that point if that makes any sense. And of course the dehydrator is in an old dog house at the end of a hundred foot cord in the back lot far from any people.

Guess it all depends on your ambient temp/humidity. Charcoal stars are the bomb in terms of getting your money's worth of effect for little cost (and no priming needed!). But I'm lazy, so I make a kilo and slice most and press the other into comets/larger stars. Obviously, you don't need as much water for pressing, but an extra day of drying and they're great. Just gotta remember to use spherical instead of granular Ti when using aluminum star tooling, oops. This summer I had 3/4"x1" stars/comets dry to the touch without assistance within 2 days. 3 days was smart just because. Have a dehydrator and dryer box, but I can wait a day or two and rarely use them. Love TT, Chrysanthemums, Spider webs. So simple, so modifiable, super gorgeous and more bang for your buck. And a fine way to use up that pesky commercial hardwood airfloat charcoal, though I tend to use a bit of SYP in most of mine for sparks. Love charcoal stars. Beautiful modifiable effects and cheap as chips! I've always briefly milled my charcoal comps. Some swear by it, but many say why bother, so next batch will be screen-mixed only. I expect great results.

 

For newbies that are using low (relatively speaking) oxidizer ratio comps and sparky charcoals, be sure you know how your comps burn--try to avoid sending flaming shards back to earth...



#8 Arthur

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Posted 13 October 2021 - 12:23 AM

Drying times depend a lot on what you call normal atmospheric relative humidity. Some places call 20% a damp day others get 90% regularly. 



#9 Uarbor

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Posted 13 October 2021 - 08:07 AM

Guess it all depends on your ambient temp/humidity. Charcoal stars are the bomb in terms of getting your money's worth of effect for little cost (and no priming needed!). But I'm lazy, so I make a kilo and slice most and press the other into comets/larger stars. Obviously, you don't need as much water for pressing, but an extra day of drying and they're great. Just gotta remember to use spherical instead of granular Ti when using aluminum star tooling, oops. This summer I had 3/4"x1" stars/comets dry to the touch without assistance within 2 days. 3 days was smart just because. Have a dehydrator and dryer box, but I can wait a day or two and rarely use them. Love TT, Chrysanthemums, Spider webs. So simple, so modifiable, super gorgeous and more bang for your buck. And a fine way to use up that pesky commercial hardwood airfloat charcoal, though I tend to use a bit of SYP in most of mine for sparks. Love charcoal stars. Beautiful modifiable effects and cheap as chips! I've always briefly milled my charcoal comps. Some swear by it, but many say why bother, so next batch will be screen-mixed only. I expect great results.
 
For newbies that are using low (relatively speaking) oxidizer ratio comps and sparky charcoals, be sure you know how your comps burn--try to avoid sending flaming shards back to earth...

the humidity has been quite low this fall not much rain either. I am all too familiar with the long burning return to Earth charcoal Fire Bombs LOL one time I made the mistake of over wetting my composition and decided to just add some charcoal. Bad idea. These things would burn all the way to the ground from 200 feet. I now just glue them to shells for a rising tail.

Edited by Uarbor, 13 October 2021 - 08:11 AM.


#10 24pyro97

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 06:59 AM

if it helps any when i make spider stars i use a chrysanthemum 6 base and i add up to 12% titanium although i use sponge instead they burn very quickly and very bright with quite a long lasting white / silver tail that hangs around.


Edited by 24pyro97, 14 October 2021 - 06:59 AM.


#11 Uarbor

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 07:30 AM

if it helps any when i make spider stars i use a chrysanthemum 6 base and i add up to 12% titanium although i use sponge instead they burn very quickly and very bright with quite a long lasting white / silver tail that hangs around.

that sounds good I use sponge titanium in my salutes and occasionally in a break charge. Next time I will put them in a batch of stars

#12 24pyro97

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 08:10 AM

This is chrysanthemum 6 just screened mixed, so before wetting and cutting this is with 15% added Titanium sponge ( 40- 80) burns much slower of course before this but its clear that the charcoal tail is almost completely overtaken by the titanium very bright . I bet tiger tail would look good with this as well 


Edited by 24pyro97, 14 October 2021 - 08:11 AM.


#13 Uarbor

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 08:33 AM

This is chrysanthemum 6 just screened mixed, so before wetting and cutting this is with 15% added Titanium sponge ( 40- 80) burns much slower of course before this but its clear that the charcoal tail is almost completely overtaken by the titanium very bright . I bet tiger tail would look good with this as well 
https://www.youtube....h?v=9Hx4hddoh4o

wow that does look good. It looks like I am on track to put up a few Rockets this weekend probably Sunday. I will be sure to share some footage.

#14 Guernica

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 10:57 AM

Hey Uarbor, you mentioned that your rockets are going higher & higher lately... any tips you can share? For instance, are you going with the hottest fuel you can make, or are you finding if you cool it down a bit, there's less drag and it gets higher. Nozzle or nozzleless? I recently made my first 1# rocket (hot fuel, no nozzle) and found that it didn't go very high, although the 6 ounce header probably has something to do with that as well.

Anyway, seems like you're having great success and I'm curious what you can share. And keep up the good work!

Edited by Guernica, 14 October 2021 - 10:58 AM.


#15 Uarbor

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Posted 15 October 2021 - 07:43 AM

Hey Uarbor, you mentioned that your rockets are going higher & higher lately... any tips you can share? For instance, are you going with the hottest fuel you can make, or are you finding if you cool it down a bit, there's less drag and it gets higher. Nozzle or nozzleless? I recently made my first 1# rocket (hot fuel, no nozzle) and found that it didn't go very high, although the 6 ounce header probably has something to do with that as well.

Anyway, seems like you're having great success and I'm curious what you can share. And keep up the good work!

I made the fastest fuel I could make 75 15 10 with Willow charcoal ball milled three and a half hours. The purpose was for to use it without a nozzle. Initial tests had the Rockets going very high but once I added my 9 ounce header things were right back down to where I was before as far as overall height. So I decided to include a nozzle since I had Universal tooling which has a a very large opening. These Rockets are now in A League of Their Own as far as I'm concerned. A night and day difference as far as power and height even with a heavy load which seems to increase the coast Factor they were going higher than any rocket with a header has gone for me, now if you had regular BP tooling you would have to slow the fuel down a bit probably. I assumed it was going to blow up with this fuel but I was pleasantly surprised that it flew like a bat out of hell. And oh yeah I forgot to mention waxing the tubes is what I believe makes this possible.

Edited by Uarbor, 15 October 2021 - 07:48 AM.


#16 Guernica

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Posted 15 October 2021 - 12:52 PM

Awesome, thanks for those specifics! Sounds like the nozzle made all the difference in the world. I'll go ahead & give that a try, and be sure to wax the tube as well. I'm working with Caleb's "super black powder" 1 pound tooling, so if I'm not satisfied with my performance, it's definitely on me. I'm looking forward to trying a nozzle, thanks again my man.

#17 justvisiting

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Posted 15 October 2021 - 02:23 PM

Guernica, I don't mean to butt in but it seems that you have a problem that should be solved before you add a nozzle. A 1# nozzleless rocket on Caleb's BP tooling should be able to easily lift a 4" ball shell to proper display height. A 4" ball shell weighs around 16 ounces. If you are having a problem achieving this, something is not right. Maybe your BP is not hot enough. Maybe you are hand ramming and not getting good enough consolidation, and not getting enough propellant in the tube because of it. Adding a nozzle might work, but solving the original problem is a better option, in my view. There's a thread that's entitled 'Nozzleless Rocket Article' that might be helpful to you. 

 

A couple of examples for you:

 

A hand rammed black powder rocket with a nozzle should be able to lift a 3" shell to proper display height. The propellant is black, and it's powder, but it's not black powder- if that makes sense. Various formulas are used, such as 60-15-15-10, with 15 being fine charcoal, and 15 being coarser charcoal like 40-80 mesh. Adding a couple percent of water makes it easier to compact the propellant grain, and the motors do not need drying.

 

For nozzleless rockets, well-milled 75-15-10 made with a hot BP charcoal (not commercial airfloat) is commonly used. Adding water and then pressing to 3500-4500psi should give you more than enough zip.

 

I use Caleb's black powder tooling also.



#18 Guernica

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Posted 15 October 2021 - 03:48 PM

Oh, you're not butting in at all justvisiting, I greatly appreciate the wisdom as well as your time! And I'll definitely carefully review that thread. Based on what I'm understanding, my suspicion is that my powder was too dry, and I didn't achieve adequate consolidation. In fact it (my powdered fuel) was blowing out in little plumes from the hole in the drift/rammer that goes from the hollow void (that the spindle goes into) to the perpendicular hole at the top that accepts the extra little rod to help extract the rammer from the tube. (I'm assuming it's intentional that the holes connect, maybe to prevent air from being trapped above the spindle.)

Typically what I've been doing with the cohete tooling is ricing my fuel (with 70% isopropyl alcohol), as recommended here, after ball milling, which seems to keep it from being too dusty (through a 4 mesh screen twice).

In this case, I didn't do that, although I ball milled it for honestly probably 14 hours (overnight). I'm using homemade western red cedar charcoal, and 1.5 grams sent 10 grams of stars a shockingly long way in my star gun. I say this only to hopefully eliminate the fuel as being the issue, although I could certainly be wrong.

Anyway, my fuel, though seemingly pretty hot, was extremely dusty and perhaps that's the crux of my issue. I'm guessing you'd agree that my next step should be to granulate said fuel, and also add moisture before ramming, and see how that works. (I'm using 75:15:10 proportions.)

I've been working as a homebuilder/carpenter for some years now, and I think I'm getting pretty solid blows when I ram. I give it a good 15 solid whacks per increment. Also, I was trying to be conservative and used increments of no more than a heaping 1/2 teaspoon of comp at a time.

In any case, I'll granulate this current batch of fuel, add moisture before I ram, and report back at my next opportunity to launch my next rockets.

Again, really appreciate the feedback- this is the most amazing hobby I've ever been a part of!

Edited by Guernica, 15 October 2021 - 05:57 PM.





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