making sulfur? (or any good places to buy it)

[loopdee]

I was wondering if it is possible to easily make your own sulfur from scratch. I cannot find any local places that sell it (i've checked Home Depot, Walmart, Target, Ace Hardware, Tractor Supply Co.). I am also trying to avoid buying online. Anybody have any easy recipes or other store reccomendations that I havent already mentioned?

 

[SharkWhisperer]

I was wondering if it is possible to easily make your own sulfur from scratch. I cannot find any local places that sell it (i've checked Home Depot, Walmart, Target, Ace Hardware, Tractor Supply Co.). I am also trying to avoid buying online. Anybody have any easy recipes or other store reccomendations that I havent already mentioned?

 

Yeah everybody makes their own sulfur from scratch. It's pretty easy. You just mix some silicon powder with helium gas and get it really hot--the nuclei will fuse together giving pure brand new sulfur! As close to "from scratch" as you'll ever get it. Or you could try to separate it out from biotin or thiamine supplements you can buy in the vitamin section of Walmart. If you're really hard pressed, I'm sure you could figure a way to extract it from the hydrogen sulfide and other sulfides produced from a few dozen chicken eggs, but you'd have to find a way to make them all go bad at the exact same time for optimal yield. Plaster of Paris from Home Depot or an art store is just calcium sulfate/gypsum--I'm sure you could do the calculations to extract the pure sulfur from the CaSO₄, no? Or what about isolating it from the sulfuric acid in some drain cleaners?

 

Or you could revisit the stores you listed and actually read the labels of their garden products--you will find sulfur there, for sure, if you remember to bring your eyeglasses along. Ace stocks 90% sulfur. 10$ for 4 pounds. Or a big 25-pound bag for $26! You'll probably need to wash it free of extraneous materials like clay and make sure it's not acidic.

 

Or you could pay the ridiculously inexpensive $2-3/pound from any fireworking chemical vendor and have it at your front door in a few days. That's probably the easiest way.

[Arthur]

Sulphur is an element, it isn't made, it is mined or recovered as a by product from refining crude oil. I used to be able to buy it in one pound tins from DIY shops as a sulphur candle for fumigating glasshouses. Sadly now with crude oil being made "extra low sulphur" for fuel there are huge heaps of elemental sulphur as a powder siting around but a very poor supply route because there seem to be few uses domestically.

[loopdee]

Sorry I should have elaborated. Extracting sulphur from a readily available (from a hardware store) chemical

[loopdee]

Extracting it from sulfuric acid seems viable (if youre not kidding) as I have seen that in the dollar tree. I have found 40% fast acting sulphur, but Im not sure thats worth it given the extraction process. Also, I am unfamiliar with the shipping process (if you cant tell). Is there hazmat fees involved? Or is it not considered dangerous standalone. Edited August 3, 2021 by loopdee

[SharkWhisperer]

Yes, I was kidding about extracting sulfur from sulfuric acid.

 

Here, all reliable. Take your pick:

 

https://www.fireworkscookbook.com/product/sulfur/

 

https://www.ihaveadotcom.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=72_119&products_id=274

 

https://dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=sulfur

 

https://www.pyrochemsource.com/Sulfur-Powder_p_16.html

 

No, sulfur is not hazardous to ship. No hazmat fees. It is flammable, but so is sugar and Doritos. Typing "is sufur hazardous to ship" into google would have answered that question for yourself in seconds.

 

What are you planning on doing with it?

Edited August 3, 2021 by SharkWhisperer

[loopdee]

Making bp. I already made a sugar rocket so I am going to make a bp rocket and then eventually shells

[SharkWhisperer]

Making bp. I already made a sugar rocket so I am going to make a bp rocket and then eventually shells

The biggest mistake folks new to BP make is using shitty charcoal or being too damned lazy to make their own. Commercial hardwood arifloat and BBQ briquettes are not your friends.

 

The second biggest mistake is inadequate mixing of chems. A ball mill, even a cheap rock tumbler, will greatly enhance your BP making adventures.

 

Do some reading. It's one of the more popular topics here, and there is much useful information contained in those threads. If you start asking "which wood makes the best charcoal?" or "where do I get potassium nitrate/does it ship hazmat?" or "what speed should my 6" mill jar spin at?" or "why is my BP clumping in the mill?" you are going to deservedly get roasted because those questions have been answered in print here many times.

 

Do some research and we'll be happy to help you smooth out the rough edges.

[loopdee]

Alright. I don’t have a ball mill yet, just a blender. I wanna see how fast my bp is without milling, because I saw in Ned Gorski’s fireworking 101 he used a blender to make fine KNO3 from course KNO3 and did the same for sulfur and charcoal. I will be washing the blender between blending different chemicals.

[SharkWhisperer]

Alright. I don’t have a ball mill yet, just a blender. I wanna see how fast my bp is without milling, because I saw in Ned Gorski’s fireworking 101 he used a blender to make fine KNO3 from course KNO3 and did the same for sulfur and charcoal. I will be washing the blender between blending different chemicals.

You're gonna loooove how much of a mess charcoal-in-a-blender can make. Hope you live alone. Suggest you do it outside and stand upwind when opening. Especially if just screen mixing, wet granulation might help to better incorporate the chems into one another. Makes it less dusty for handling anyways.

 

Consider this: https://www.harborfreight.com/dual-drum-rotary-rock-tumbler-67632.html?_br_psugg_q=rock+tumbler

[Mumbles]

You're in the right section. Don't worry about asking somewhat simple questions. It's always appreciated to do some background research to show you're trying to learn, but nobody should be roasting anybody here for trying to learn. I much prefer a gentle nudge in the right direction. Firm nudge if necessary or there are glaring issues or safety concerns.

 

I'm not going to say it's not possible to make decent BP without a mill, but it really helps. Even if you're not milling everything together, it will get you much finer chemicals than a blender ever will. Sulfur often comes pretty finely powdered. It's usually the charcoal and nitrate that are going to need a little more work. We're here to help. Just a forewarning though that trying to skimp on processes often doesn't yield very good results.

 

If you're trying to find it locally, looking for wettable or dusting sulfur may get you some better results. Bonide or Hi-Yield are the two most common brands in the US. It will be about 90% pure, with the rest being clay I believe. Expect to pay about $10-$20 for a 4lb bag. Smaller independently owned garden shops, if you have any around, might be the right kind of place to look. Bigger box stores can be hit or miss on what they offer and what's popular for local gardeners. In BP, 90% pure is only 1% overall impurities, so you're probably going to be fine. Those links SharkWhisperer gave are also all good sources for high quality sulfur and will likely be cheaper in the long run if you get more dedicated to this and are looking for more than just a pound or two.

[loopdee]

I'm not going to say it's not possible to make decent BP without a mill, but it really helps. Even if you're not milling everything together, it will get you much finer chemicals than a blender ever will. Sulfur often comes pretty finely powdered. It's usually the charcoal and nitrate that are going to need a little more work. We're here to help. Just a forewarning though that trying to skimp on processes often doesn't yield very good results.

 

If you're trying to find it locally, looking for wettable or dusting sulfur may get you some better results. Bonide or Hi-Yield are the two most common brands in the US. It will be about 90% pure, with the rest being clay I believe. Expect to pay about $10-$20 for a 4lb bag. Smaller independently owned garden shops, if you have any around, might be the right kind of place to look. Bigger box stores can be hit or miss on what they offer and what's popular for local gardeners. In BP, 90% pure is only 1% overall impurities, so you're probably going to be fine. Those links SharkWhisperer gave are also all good sources for high quality sulfur and will likely be cheaper in the long run if you get more dedicated to this and are looking for more than just a pound or two.

 

I do understand that a ball mill would help to make better bp, but for around $100 for a quality one (as for my blender, $10) I’m not sure if it’s worth it. Even if I create some really slow bp, enough of it should launch a shell right? I’m not exactly worried about efficiency of my bp, as its about $8 a pound with my cold pack, no salt, sulfur, charcoal recipe.

 

As for finding it locally (sulfur), all of my stores are sold out. I live in Ohio, and ive checked everywhere (including on the online website) so I guess that’s a lost hope for me. I have found a few videos on purifying 40% fast acting sulfur to higher purifies so that might be worth a shot. Forgot to mention, I also have no spectracide stump remover in my Home Depot (hence the cold pack and no salt to make it). Only stuff they have is stump-out.

[SharkWhisperer]

I do understand that a ball mill would help to make better bp, but for around $100 for a quality one (as for my blender, $10) I’m not sure if it’s worth it. Even if I create some really slow bp, enough of it should launch a shell right? I’m not exactly worried about efficiency of my bp, as its about $8 a pound with my cold pack, no salt, sulfur, charcoal recipe.

 

As for finding it locally (sulfur), all of my stores are sold out. I live in Ohio, and ive checked everywhere (including on the online website) so I guess that’s a lost hope for me. I have found a few videos on purifying 40% fast acting sulfur to higher purifies so that might be worth a shot. Forgot to mention, I also have no spectracide stump remover in my Home Depot (hence the cold pack and no salt to make it). Only stuff they have is stump-out.

Are you sure your cold-pack chem is KNO₃? Often it's ammonium nitrate, which won't make bp. The Bonide 90% sulfur balance like Mumbles said is mostly clay (bentonite, actually--you could keep it for rocket nozzles). The rest of the 40% stuff you're considering....who knows? Chancey. You could always ask Ace or a smaller store to order some in for you, or keep looking around.

 

But if you could swing shipping costs, a pound of pure S is $3 and 2 pounds of quality KNO₃ is $4 ($6 if you're spoiled and like it premilled). Charcoal is almost free if you make it yourself, a couple of bucks for ERC pet bedding at Walmart. So...for $6 plus shipping (yes, for that small order it's probably around $10) you're less than $20 all-in, with absolutely no concerns about chem purity other than your charcoal. And no need to do extractions/filtering/drying, which, though not difficult, is a pain in the butt and, with your poorly defined starting materials, of uncertain outcome. Less than $20. And you'll be 100% certain that the quality/performance of your bp has absolutely nothing to do with your chem quality (apart from your charcoal), so you can put all efforts into technique.

 

"Even if I create some really slow bp, enough of it should launch a shell right?" Not necessarily. There's a difference between slow bp and outright shitty bp. There is a limit to how much "slow" bp you can dump into a mortar to lift a shell. And if you have lift issues, then your bigger problem is that you now have burst issues--you cannot endlessly fill a finite shell with more and more "really slow" bp because you simply run out of space...

 

Too slow is a much bigger problem than too fast, which you will rarely if ever hear complaints about. "Damn, my bp is just too damned fast to use for lift/burst!!! How do I slow it down?" said nobody ever. You tone down bp speed for cored rockets, or use slower (often cheaper) charcoals for bp for fountains.

 

You've heard the phrase "Penny wise, pound foolish". You might be chasing your tail and actually spending more trying to save a few dimes.

Edited August 4, 2021 by SharkWhisperer

[myfriendtheenemy]

I do understand that a ball mill would help to make better bp, but for around $100 for a quality one (as for my blender, $10) I’m not sure if it’s worth it. Even if I create some really slow bp, enough of it should launch a shell right? I’m not exactly worried about efficiency of my bp, as its about $8 a pound with my cold pack, no salt, sulfur, charcoal recipe.

 

As for finding it locally (sulfur), all of my stores are sold out. I live in Ohio, and ive checked everywhere (including on the online website) so I guess that’s a lost hope for me. I have found a few videos on purifying 40% fast acting sulfur to higher purifies so that might be worth a shot. Forgot to mention, I also have no spectracide stump remover in my Home Depot (hence the cold pack and no salt to make it). Only stuff they have is stump-out.

I don't have an expensive ball mill, all I have is a rock tumbler with a plastic container. Sure, I can only make a little over 50 grams at a time, but I'm not making shells so I don't really have a use for a lot of bp. You can make ball mill pretty easily if your good with that kind of stuff.

 

Any stump remover works, as long as it says 99% potassium nitrate on the back. It doesn't have to be Spectracide.

 

Just buy the stuff online, the only bp ingredient that you will save money making yourself is charcoal.

 

In my opinion, the only way to make bp that is moderately fast without a ball mill is with a mortar and pestle, and that takes a lot of time and elbow grease. I used to use a mortar and pestle and it took me 5 minutes of grinding just to get a couple grams of fast bp. Not fun.

[loopdee]

Are you sure your cold-pack chem is KNO₃? Often it's ammonium nitrate, which won't make bp.

It is ammonium nitrate, but filter out the caking agent and mix with nosalt (potassium chloride) you get KNO₃. Im also confused by the bp thing. Do lower mesh values (4 and 8) create quicker bp than higher mesh values? Or is it the other way around (or does it just not matter, and I should just make high quality bp). The Harbor Freight tumbler seemed alright, but I might just end up making my own if it comes down to it. I went to Walmart yesterday and all they had was the shit with 7% sulfur. Im going to go to Home Depot again and see if they restocked or if I missed anything. Also, I thought spectracide was the only stump remover with all KNO3, so Ill be looking for alternatives to that too. Edited August 4, 2021 by loopdee

[SharkWhisperer]

It is ammonium nitrate, but filter out the caking agent and mix with nosalt (potassium chloride) you get KNO₃.

Of course. All ingredients considered, you seem to be taking the long way (and probably even more expensive way) around getting S and KNO₃ than just buying them...

 

1 pound sulfur. 2 pounds KNO₃. Proven quality. $7 plus shipping.

[loopdee]

I don't have an expensive ball mill, all I have is a rock tumbler with a plastic container.

I thought plastic generated static when used in a milling scenario.

[loopdee]

 

 

1 pound sulfur. 2 pounds KNO₃. Proven quality. $7 plus shipping.

Shipping is $16 to Ohio , which is why I want to do everything possible locally (while I'm still getting into this hobby). Just went to Home Depot (again) and asked the guy if they have any gardening sulfur. He said I should check the store a few blocks down (gardening store) but they're closed for the season. Ace has pickup for Hi-Yield by the 12th, so I've placed an order on that. Guess it's waiting time.

Edited August 4, 2021 by loopdee

[SharkWhisperer]

Shipping is $16 to Ohio , which is why I want to do everything possible locally (while I'm still getting into this hobby). Just went to Home Depot (again) and asked the guy if they have any gardening sulfur. He said I should check the store a few blocks down (gardening store) but they're closed for the season. Ace has pickup for Hi-Yield by the 12th, so I've placed an order on that. Guess it's waiting time.

Yeah, shipping is always a poke in the side. But shipping costs don't parallel poundage 1:1. My last order was 20+ pounds & cost about $21 (I mentally add in a buck/pound). Good reason to order a bunch at once.

 

Sooo....$10 for 4 pounds of 90% gardening sulfur you get to wash the clay out of and dry. Toss in the tidbit for the guv sales tax. About the same price as vendors for 4 lbs. $10

 

And...how much cost for ice packs for ammonium nitrate and how much for no-sodium salt? ....hmmm....no idea. Labor, washing, drying, hoping there's not too much residual KCl in your KNO₃.... distilled water so no introduced contaminants.... Or appropriate stump remover if you can locate that?

 

Total with shipping from vendor for a pound of sulfur (enough for 10 pounds of BP) and 2 pounds of quality KNO₃....$23

 

Guessing it'll come out pretty close either way in absolute cost, except this way you're delayed a bit and have a some pretty boring washing & drying chores to do. Kinda like paying yourself to do your own laundry.

 

Let's look at it a different way: Let's pretend you got your hands on a pound of quality sulfur and 2 pounds of KNO₃ for $10. So you're good. All you have to think about now is accessing some quality charcoal, and shells they will be sailing!

 

But then your phone rings. And it's me. Offering you $13 for a couple hours of lazy work. I ask you to carefully wash & dry a pile of sulfur for me, and to extract some ammonium nitrate from ice packs and mix it with some KCl to make KNO₃, and filter, recrystallize, and dry that KNO₃. For me (you already got your stuff). Would you accept my offer?

 

If you wouldn't, then you've wisely valued your time at more than $13/several hours. Which is essentially what you're paying yourself (in savings) for the pleasure of making your own stuff. In the end, materially, it's the same outcome for the same cost. And that's if your material costs total only $10. And if your KNO₃ yield doesn't disappoint you. And that doesn't consider the value of all the time and effort you spent schlepping all over town and on the internet looking for items and ideas.

Edited August 4, 2021 by SharkWhisperer

[justvisiting]

I think we misunderstood the OP. The question was meant as "What is the most difficult possible way to make black powder?" Yuk yuk. Just kidding, but seriously, just buy the stuff you need! If you can't buy what you need, you may not be resourceful enough to do pyro

 

99.5% pure sulfur powder on Amazon, 99.95 CDN to my door. Just need a pound of pure sulfur prills? 12 bucks Canadian. They grind up perfectly in a bullet grinder.

[SharkWhisperer]

I think we misunderstood the OP. The question was meant as "What is the most difficult possible way to make black powder?" Yuk yuk. Just kidding, but seriously, just buy the stuff you need! If you can't buy what you need, you may not be resourceful enough to do pyro

 

99.5% pure sulfur powder on Amazon, 99.95 CDN to my door. Just need a pound of pure sulfur prills? 12 bucks Canadian. They grind up perfectly in a bullet grinder.

Awww now ya gotta go and mix things all up with international currency exchange calculations, ahhh sheez......

[justvisiting]

I meant to say 10 pounds of 99.5% sulfur powder for 99.95 CDN at my door Our dollars are smaller than US dollars. Today, 80 US pennies buys one of our dollars.

[loopdee]

Yeah, shipping is always a poke in the side. But shipping costs don't parallel poundage 1:1. My last order was 20+ pounds & cost about $21 (I mentally add in a buck/pound). Good reason to order a bunch at once.

 

Sooo....$10 for 4 pounds of 90% gardening sulfur you get to wash the clay out of and dry. Toss in the tidbit for the guv sales tax. About the same price as vendors for 4 lbs. $10

 

And...how much cost for ice packs for ammonium nitrate and how much for no-sodium salt? ....hmmm....no idea. Labor, washing, drying, hoping there's not too much residual KCl in your KNO₃.... distilled water so no introduced contaminants.... Or appropriate stump remover if you can locate that?

 

Total with shipping from vendor for a pound of sulfur (enough for 10 pounds of BP) and 2 pounds of quality KNO₃....$23

 

Guessing it'll come out pretty close either way in absolute cost, except this way you're delayed a bit and have a some pretty boring washing & drying chores to do. Kinda like paying yourself to do your own laundry.

 

Let's look at it a different way: Let's pretend you got your hands on a pound of quality sulfur and 2 pounds of KNO₃ for $10. So you're good. All you have to think about now is accessing some quality charcoal, and shells they will be sailing!

 

But then your phone rings. And it's me. Offering you $13 for a couple hours of lazy work. I ask you to carefully wash & dry a pile of sulfur for me, and to extract some ammonium nitrate from ice packs and mix it with some KCl to make KNO₃, and filter, recrystallize, and dry that KNO₃. For me (you already got your stuff). Would you accept my offer?

 

If you wouldn't, then you've wisely valued your time at more than $13/several hours. Which is essentially what you're paying yourself (in savings) for the pleasure of making your own stuff. In the end, materially, it's the same outcome for the same cost. And that's if your material costs total only $10. And if your KNO₃ yield doesn't disappoint you. And that doesn't consider the value of all the time and effort you spent schlepping all over town and on the internet looking for items and ideas.

As for how I value my time, I highly enjoy launching fireworks. In Ohio, it aint easy to get a 54, do building my own seemed viable (and Ive been looking to do it for like a year or so). And if you asked me to make KNO3 from cold packs, Id asked you why the hell dont you just buy it onl... oh wait

[SharkWhisperer]

I meant to say 10 pounds of 99.5% sulfur powder for 99.95 CDN at my door Our dollars are smaller than US dollars. Today, 80 US pennies buys one of our dollars.

Wow, at that price my 75/15/10 would probably become 75/20/5 !!! Never tried that.... Ten bucks Canadian for a pound of S ?!? Ahh, but that's including shipping so I guess that takes some of the sting out...

Edited August 4, 2021 by SharkWhisperer

[Arthur]

Sulphur is readily available it's used in horticulture, there are also several mail order pyro suppliers in the US. It used to be sourced from volcanic solids, it's now sourced from the production of low sulphur motor fuels.

 

If you want to do pyro on the cheap then plan to have lots of failures, you need to source the chemicals required in reasonable quantities before you start. You should also have sufficient space and all the tools needed.