ronmoper76 Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 Has anyone subbed something else for shellac successfully? Just looking for different personal opinions, particularly with phenolic resin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidh Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 I've subbed all kinds of fuels with varying degrees of success. All I can suggest is try and see what happens. There is no magic table of formulas that you can use to deterministically substitute fuels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharkWhisperer Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 I've subbed all kinds of fuels with varying degrees of success. All I can suggest is try and see what happens. There is no magic table of formulas that you can use to deterministically substitute fuels."deterministically". Wow that's 7 syllables! I think you're the first person I've ever known to actually use this word! Even "conclusively" and "decisively" are only 4 syllables! For sure you get the APC Wordsmithing Award for today! But you're right. Shellac, red gum, etc are complex and contain a collection of multiple chems that are poorly characterized (besides the main ones, perhaps). But why not test substitutes? I'd personally start with phenolic resin as OP's post mentioned. If results aren't all that great then maybe test red gum, although RG prices increased by 20-40% this year. In recent months, I've seen red gum sell for $12 and $14/lb. Last year it was regularly $10/lb. Shellac's still $15/pound or so. Shellac was a big thing in fireworking history until several decades ago, when cheaper substitutes that function as well as shellac became commonplace. And like DavidH said, there's no harm in making a small 100g test batch and seeing how it performs! Personally, I wouldn't buy comparatively expensive shellac but would try to match or improve a comp's effect with more modern chems, with a good chance of success. Have fun and please report back on what you learned form experimenting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Fuel-wise, there are going to be plenty of available substitutes. I'd start by looking up the chemical oxygen demand and use an adjustment based on that. There are tables given in Shidlovskii that are often helpful, but I think they've been reproduced elsewhere. It probably wont be perfect, but it's a starting point. Shellac is used in a lot of older formulas before other fuels became more popular. The prototypical formula is probably the Barium Chlorate/Shellac green or exhibition green formula. Certain fuels are just better matches for certain oxidizers. For instance, shellac performs well with chlorates, but tends to not be quite as good with perchlorates. I have no doubt you can replace shellac with other fuels like phenolic resin and get something that burns. If the composition will be as good you can only find out by testing. Might even be better, who knows? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronmoper76 Posted July 12, 2021 Author Share Posted July 12, 2021 I made a chlorate red the other day subbed with phenolic for shellac and it was red but it burnt so intensely and fast it sounded almost like a lit cutting torch ,lol i believe it speeded it up quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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