deepakpyro Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 (edited) Hello, I am armature in the pyrotechnics.started to make some star in small batches less than 80 gms (enough for 2/3 inch shell).list of metallic powder currently i am using are1. Manganalium (200 mesh)2. Aluminum powder (200 mesh & 325 mesh - Spherical)3. Aluminum powder (flake - grade MEPCO 666,333,999). i have read in many topics about the incompatible mix of Nitrates and Aluminum powders. when ever i am making stars composition only having the Al powder + other stuffs, i am adding 1% - 2% Boric acid to stabilize the formula. But, currently i need to make some color stars which i need to mix MgAl and AL. i am afraid of ignition of composition due to non-compatible properties(presence of Al) . does adding boric acid solve my issue also here ?. or Boric acid will have reverse reaction with MgAl making it unstable ?. if i need to roll my stars is that will be a problem ?, where i am using 75/25 water/IPA Any safety tips i needed for storage of finished shell. Better safe rather than sorry. Critic/answers/advises/thoughts most welcome..... Edited February 16, 2021 by deepakpyro 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharkWhisperer Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 Hello, I am armature in the pyrotechnics.started to make some star in small batches less than 80 gms (enough for 2/3 inch shell).list of metallic powder currently i am using are1. Manganalium (200 mesh)2. Aluminum powder (200 mesh & 325 mesh - Spherical)3. Aluminum powder (flake - grade MEPCO 666,333,999). i have read in many topics about the incompatible mix of Nitrates and Aluminum powders. when ever i am making stars composition only having the Al powder + other stuffs, i am adding 1% - 2% Boric acid to stabilize the formula. But, currently i need to make some color stars which i need to mix MgAl and AL. i am afraid of ignition of composition due to non-compatible properties(presence of Al) . does adding boric acid solve my issue also here ?. or Boric acid will have reverse reaction with MgAl making it unstable ?. if i need to roll my stars is that will be a problem ?, where i am using 75/25 water/IPA Any safety tips i needed for storage of finished shell. Better safe rather than sorry. Critic/answers/advises/thoughts most welcome..... Deepak hi, Although many use boric acid in Al/nitrate mixes (and I used to) I have never had an issue where I thought it was necessary. Others have, though. If adding boric acid, it's usually best to dissolve it first into any water that you are using to moisten your star mix, to assure uniform distribution. It is not very soluble, but you can get enough into solution. When I used it, I only used 0.5% final composition mass of boric acid--not 1 or 2%. If you have composition warming issues with Al/nitrates, then boric acid can be useful; I've just never experienced that. My pound of boric acid (454g) still contains 444g, after 5 years!! But it will not hurt anything to include it, and if it makes you more comfortable than please do so. Me? I'd rather have one less chem to weigh and incorporate into my comps... I also do not worry about nitrate/MgAl mixtures, and do not add boric acid to those, either. Many star comps contain both MgAl and Al without any problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepakpyro Posted February 16, 2021 Author Share Posted February 16, 2021 (edited) Hey sharkwhisper, Its great to hear from you again.My doubt is comps having nitrate+MgAl+Al flakes. Worried about that only. I will start with less amount.Lets check out it by week drying time. Edited February 17, 2021 by deepakpyro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richtee Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 (edited) Huh...finally a use for all those lousy IPA’s out these days (OK the poster is obviously not from America... It’s a joke. And, an explanation. IPA is a beer style, and not a well conceived one in my opinion. But it’s all the rage with the kiddies these days. Prolly WILL remove the Tide Pod taste from yer mouth tho. Maybe that’s the deal) Edited February 16, 2021 by Richtee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharkWhisperer Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) Hey sharkwhisper, Its great to hear from you again.My doubt is comps having nitrate+MgAl+Al flakes.Worried about that only. I will start with less amount.Lets check out it by week drying time.Deepak, I recalled something that Mumbles wrote in a different thread about boric acid potentially reacting with MgAl: "I typically just add boric acid to the wetting water. You can only get maybe 3-4 wt% to dissolve normally, even though it has a higher reported solubility in some places. It's much more effective at buffering when it's in solution. The Nitrate/Al reaction is mediated by water, so it wont really happen once a composition is dried anyway. I've only had an issue with a few select compositions, and they all contain additional basic components like sodium oxalate or sodium bicarbonate. They usually were based on flake Aluminum as well. Boric acid really doesn't affect the burn rate noticeably, and certainly not the color. Boric acid does react with MgAl. This, like all reactions, is even worse if heated. Boric acid works by soaking up hydroxide to make borates. This is how it mediates the nitrate/Al reaction. The same property can cause it to react with MgAl. Aluminum oxide itself is somewhat amphoteric due to how much it likes to hold onto it's oxygen. It is decently acidic which allows hydroxide to easily attack and makes aluminates, which expose fresh Aluminum and can continue to react. However, this oxide layer tends to be fairly inert to weak acids since it does not necessarily want to give up it's oxygen. You need something fairly strong to dissolve it. Magnesium is not the same. It is also amphoteric to some degree, but it's oxide layer is both flakier and more basic. This makes it more prone to reacting with acids or water. It is this property that makes MgAl more prone to attack or will allow boric acid to dissolve it's oxide layer. MgAl is more prone to react than aluminum, but less so than pure magnesium." So, you might be better off just leaving the boric acid out of your mix containing both MgAl and Al together. Use boric acid only for nitrate comps containing Al as the only metal, if at all... Edited February 19, 2021 by SharkWhisperer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepakpyro Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 For the future reader's in this post, i have tried to make few composition with spherical Aluminium and not have used boric acid. I have tried silver streamer stars using Al and didn't used boric acid. And i didn't used boric acid with composition which have Mgal and Al together. I used to feel the temp of composition while making stars whether it is raising or not. I used to make rolled stars dried in shades. No problem so far. I never used to make stars more than 200gms at a time, not planning to store for long time and never made flash more than 20 gms. I am using boric acid in composition is that is especially called out to add to avoid any potential reaction. Please note that, i am not an expert in pyro. This post is only based on my exp as newbie and make sure take precautions whenever you feel uncomfortable in comps. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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