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Potasium chlorate recomendations


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#1 Aspirina

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Posted 09 January 2020 - 02:36 AM

Hi all,

 

I have 1 kg of potassium chlorate since year ago, I dont use it for the reasons that we all know and because finally with a lot of difficulties I have perchlorate but is very expensive...

For Fallas I want to make some firecrackers just flash powder, but Im little afraid to make them with chlorate... The idea is 7/3 + 1% boric acid and some titanium.

 

I must forget the idea? is good or bad idea? any advices or recomendations?


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#2 SharkWhisperer

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Posted 11 January 2020 - 05:40 AM

Aspirina, I'm going to operate under the assumption that you have been in pyro for awhile and have experience with perchlorate-based 7/3. If this is not the case, then please do not even consider making potassium chlorate-based flash. In addition to enhanced friction sensitivity vs perc, chlorate mixtures are also much more sensitive to shock (e.g., dropping) than perc mixtures.

 

That said, potassium chlorate was used for quite a long time before the safer perc became available. I have made potassium chlorate-based flash before, primarily to get rid of my chlorate stock. You need to appreciate the dangers involved and protect yourself accordingly. Or just don't do it.

 

Regarding stability, I haven't stored chlorate-based flash, but others, on this site included, have reported no loss of functionality after months or perhaps a year in storage.

 

Now please explain the addition of boric acid, because that is confusing me. Boric acid is typically added to nitrate/aluminum mixtures to reduce the possibility of unwanted/unanticipated heat generation due to the reaction between aluminum (generally more common with flake vs spherical) and nitrate, or alkaline impurities in KNO3, that generate an exothermic reaction. I cannot see any benefit of adding boric acid to a chlorate- or perchlorate-based 7/3 flash, for either functionality or storage purposes. That said, I of course do not claim to know everything about every formulation--like everybody, I am continually learning new things. This might be the case here, too. So please clarify the reason for the boric acid inclusion.

 

Take-home message: Be very careful, please. And fully understand the role of every single chemical in any given pyro formulation--if you cannot, then it is premature for you to be working with that formulation.

 

Be safe,

 

SW


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#3 kingkama

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Posted 11 January 2020 - 12:30 PM

In a spanish book i find often the recommendations of add boric acid to all alluminum composition to prevent the reaction of alluminum and moisture, Imo add an acid to a chlorate composition is useless and risks adding

#4 Aspirina

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Posted 11 January 2020 - 04:50 PM

Aspirina, I'm going to operate under the assumption that you have been in pyro for awhile and have experience with perchlorate-based 7/3. If this is not the case, then please do not even consider making potassium chlorate-based flash. In addition to enhanced friction sensitivity vs perc, chlorate mixtures are also much more sensitive to shock (e.g., dropping) than perc mixtures.

 

That said, potassium chlorate was used for quite a long time before the safer perc became available. I have made potassium chlorate-based flash before, primarily to get rid of my chlorate stock. You need to appreciate the dangers involved and protect yourself accordingly. Or just don't do it.

 

Regarding stability, I haven't stored chlorate-based flash, but others, on this site included, have reported no loss of functionality after months or perhaps a year in storage.

 

Now please explain the addition of boric acid, because that is confusing me. Boric acid is typically added to nitrate/aluminum mixtures to reduce the possibility of unwanted/unanticipated heat generation due to the reaction between aluminum (generally more common with flake vs spherical) and nitrate, or alkaline impurities in KNO3, that generate an exothermic reaction. I cannot see any benefit of adding boric acid to a chlorate- or perchlorate-based 7/3 flash, for either functionality or storage purposes. That said, I of course do not claim to know everything about every formulation--like everybody, I am continually learning new things. This might be the case here, too. So please clarify the reason for the boric acid inclusion.

 

Take-home message: Be very careful, please. And fully understand the role of every single chemical in any given pyro formulation--if you cannot, then it is premature for you to be working with that formulation.

 

Be safe,

 

SW

 
SharkWhisperer you have the explanation about boric acid, thanks KingKama
 
Im not a chemistry expert, Im only make "standard" formulation for pyro, that is the reason of this topic Im very conscius about the dangerous of potasium chlorate I read a lot of pyro security im not a expert but not treat me like a noob just take a look on my content and youtube chanel. I make my flash powder with perclorate and aluminium plus boric acid, the reason of this topic is just replace chlorate for preclorate because for me is very complicated and expensive get it, in Spain is illigal all type of self made pyrotechnics and oxidicer like perclorate...
 
"I must forget the idea? is good or bad idea? any advices or recomendations?"
I think the intention of this topic is very clear, dont make innecesary alarms, I get it, no chlorate firecrackers....

Edited by Aspirina, 11 January 2020 - 04:52 PM.

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#5 kingkama

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Posted 12 January 2020 - 05:41 AM

Chlorate has a bad reputations, it's more reactive but not so much more than perchlorate, the hard point is the sulfur, if you add it you lower the ignition temperature and the reaction with some kind of sulfur and moisture can generate sulfuric acid that will decompose chlorate in chloric acid. I often used shimizu chlorate report because i knows my sulfur is acid free, but a simple mix without sulfur will make a very nice report. IMO use 1% of barium carbonate is better than use 1% of boric acid.
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#6 Aspirina

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Posted 12 January 2020 - 10:22 AM

I would to make valencian style firecrackers, then, is a safe idea build these one by the method of "inside mixing"? Valencian style firecrackers like caramelle is only paper and cord, if I fill it with the chemicals separadly and then when the firecracker is closed make rotations on them for mix the chemicals? (only chlorate and aluminium)


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#7 kingkama

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Posted 12 January 2020 - 01:35 PM

I don't see big problem in what you like to do, may be a good plus add some rice hull or bran but no more of 1/5 so mixing will be easy. Pay attention, the forum rules are not friendly with the bulding of this kind of device, in US are strong forbidden and a lot of young guys can use this information for loose thumbs and eyes. I know your works and i know that this kind of toys don't show big difficulty but pay attention easy task are often the more tricky.
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#8 MinamotoKobayashi

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Posted 12 January 2020 - 02:57 PM

For my salute shells and maroons I usually use this mix:
 
58 Potassium Perchlorate
42 Aluminium German Dark
 
I never used other flash compositions because this one seems to be much less sensitive: I have tried to scratch and hit a very small amount of comp
between a rammer and a anvil and the flash never exploded.
I suppose that this kind of mix will be less powerful of the classical 70/30 but I prefer to be as safe as possible.
Hovewer the explosion is very loud and very bright due to the presence of more metal compared to the other formula.
Instead diapering method I put both the individual chems inside an hemis, then I add some rice hulls on the top and close the shell with the other hemis.
Then I proceed to paste the shell as usually.
The pasting procedure will mix the chems inside very well and in the safer conditions.
Of course You must screen the perchlorate alone before to put it into the shell to eliminate possible clumps.
 
 

Edited by MinamotoKobayashi, 12 January 2020 - 04:12 PM.

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#9 Aspirina

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 02:41 AM

I don't see big problem in what you like to do, may be a good plus add some rice hull or bran but no more of 1/5 so mixing will be easy. Pay attention, the forum rules are not friendly with the bulding of this kind of device, in US are strong forbidden and a lot of young guys can use this information for loose thumbs and eyes. I know your works and i know that this kind of toys don't show big difficulty but pay attention easy task are often the more tricky.

 

mmm..... I have not taken this point into account, I have written to mumbles to close this topic....

Thanks Minamoto for the advice.


«The first great virtue of man was doubt, and the first great defect was faith» Carl Sagan

 

My stuff:

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