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Obsolete chemicals


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#1 Mates2106

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 03:26 PM

Hi,

when searching through databases of pyro compositions (like PyroData), I was always wondering what was the point of using some dangerous and not so common chemicals - maybe somebody here will know more?

1) Hg2Cl2 and PbCl2 - were they used as Cl donors??

2) Paris green - a blue colorant, but is it any better than CuCO3, CuCl2 or so?

3) Sb2S3 - it seems like it is a fuel, but what makes it better than just S, C or organic fuels?

4) As2S3 - i'm not sure what it was supposed to do

 

Also, most old recipes from my grandfather's notebook contains both KClO3 and S :-D



#2 Davidg1

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 03:48 PM

Sb2S3 is not obsolete. It is Antimony Trisulfide and is used in a variety of modern formulae.

#3 dagabu

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 04:40 PM

We use Sb2S3, Antimony Trisulfidein tremalon, glitter, charcoal based stars of all kinds, gerbs and chrysanthemums, strobes and dark flash. Like DG says, its used a lot.  

 

As2S3 is Realgar and it is also known as Red Arsenic. its used for a few comps but not as many as Antimony Trisulfide.

 

Hg2Cl2 is Calomel, only seen it used in blue stars.

 

Paris Green or Cu(C2H3O2)2·3Cu(AsO2)2 is probably the benchmark for blues, its poisonous like all the rest above. 

 

I don't use any of them nor do I own them, it's just not worth the trouble.


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#4 Mates2106

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 08:22 PM

OK, but what exactly is the purpose of those chemicals? I still think there are safer alternatives able to produce the same effect. There are even experiments about replacing barium with boron in green military flares, and it seems to work well.

By the way, I have never seen a recording of a paris green-based blue fire. Has anybody here tried it?



#5 Arthur

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 03:41 AM

Old formulae for old compositions contained odd, old and toxic ingredients. Sometimes compounded almost at random from the very restricted list of chemicals available in those days. Some have been superceded some have not. People do like to avoid toxic elements these days! But used carefully in small quantities they pose minimal problems. 



#6 dagabu

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 01:45 PM

Google it then, I'm not into spoon feeding people that are not willing to do the research.

 

OK, but what exactly is the purpose of those chemicals? I still think there are safer alternatives able to produce the same effect. There are even experiments about replacing barium with boron in green military flares, and it seems to work well.

By the way, I have never seen a recording of a paris green-based blue fire. Has anybody here tried it?


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#7 WSM

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 09:11 AM

OK, but what exactly is the purpose of those chemicals? I still think there are safer alternatives able to produce the same effect. There are even experiments about replacing barium with boron in green military flares, and it seems to work well.

By the way, I have never seen a recording of a paris green-based blue fire. Has anybody here tried it?

 

Yes, in the 1980's.

 

Burning a star on the ground was unimpressive (the color was washed out, probably due to black body radiation), but burning them in the sky made a beautiful deep blue star. I was particularly impressed by them mixed with strontium nitrate red stars (I really like red and blue stars together; a nice combo).

 

Like others have said, it's best to do your homework, Then if you have questions, feel free to ask.

 

WSM B)

 

Edit: Yes, the military is working on replacing toxic barium in green flames, BUT we don't have their budget (even if we're funding it with our income taxes). 


Edited by WSM, 09 December 2018 - 09:14 AM.


#8 FlipperFuego

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Posted 07 August 2019 - 11:53 AM

Really interesting thread, Im learning a lot. Thanks for posting everyone 2bUDwtboFV.png






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