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Basic Ethernet Firing System


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#1 SephYuyX

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 05:16 PM

Hey all,

Looking to dip my toes in to some remote firing, and thought i'd try to step it up a bit from a simple nail board, but not by much more.

No resistors or diodes, just a simple little system, but I want to make sure my little theory would work before going any further.

 

There are a few Ethernet firing systems out there, so I thought I would dumb those down a bit and make a cheap one. Using 24AWG UTP 8Wire Cat6 under 300ft should be fine with a 24V/3000mA battery.

 

Using the eight wires, I would make one a ground and run that to a selector to make one out of the four rails active at a time. Each of the seven push buttons would then be wired to one of the same color across all four rails. So button one would be all purple, and when pressing it, it would simply try to throw current down all four rails on the purple wire, but with the selector only on rail one, only channel one on rail one would fire as that is a complete circuit.

 

Make sense? It's a bit of a mess, but hopefully it came out sort of clear. I'm pretty sure I can get away with this without any sort of resistors or diodes, so this is super simple. My one concern is that can anyone see a chance of a missfire with this? With a common ground there shouldnt be any stray current going anywhere else, but idk. My EE is a bit rusty. 

 

Also, I am curious if anyone knows the answer to this but, how do some of these pro ethernet systems get 12 channels on one rail with only eight wires?

 

Thanks, dont be too rough on me.


Edited by SephYuyX, 15 March 2018 - 05:16 PM.


#2 starxplor

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 10:46 PM

Not having used these pro systems you refer to, I guess from what I would do, is to have some logic controller on the module end and a binary signal with the wires that gets demuxed to fire a single cue.



#3 Arthur

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 01:43 AM

Using eight core cable you can get up to 7 cues without other components, 16 cues are available with 16 diodes. Using digital processing a vast number of cues can be controlled using outboard electronics.

 

Does anyone have links to any of "joeratman"'s posts from PyroUniverse forum? He posted circuits for almost every possibility of firing circuit. -Has he written books? Are his posts archived anywhere?

 

With the price of retail firing systems vs the price of components and design time, do consider buying a well made unit.



#4 SephYuyX

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 04:29 PM

Not having used these pro systems you refer to, I guess from what I would do, is to have some logic controller on the module end and a binary signal with the wires that gets demuxed to fire a single cue.

 

 

Using eight core cable you can get up to 7 cues without other components, 16 cues are available with 16 diodes. Using digital processing a vast number of cues can be controlled using outboard electronics.

 

Does anyone have links to any of "joeratman"'s posts from PyroUniverse forum? He posted circuits for almost every possibility of firing circuit. -Has he written books? Are his posts archived anywhere?

 

With the price of retail firing systems vs the price of components and design time, do consider buying a well made unit.

 

Some sort of electronic system was what I was guessing as well, I guess use of paired wires and the like. I was just trying to think if there was an easy way to accomplish it without any sort of overboard electronic work. 

 

I do recall seeing some of those diagrams, but who would of thought it would shut down, probably can get to some of the posts through the waybackmachine https://web.archive....se.com:80/forum

 

My time is cheap right now, and have most of the parts, so it's not too much of an expense. Plus it is kind of fun trying to think about these times of things again; it's been quite some time.

 

Thank you for the replies.



#5 starxplor

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 09:36 PM

I tried building a wired system with cat6 cable at one point, before deciding to just go wireless and buy a cobra system.

A few things I ran into:

1) If you use common return line, be careful that current to light a signal when all cues have continuity is not too much to set off a single cue if it is the only one connected.

2) As above, be careful that your firing current is enough to light a cue when all cues have continuity.

3) A local power source with basic switching circuitry controlled by the line signal from the control unit avoids having to overpower the controller. Useful if you are not leaving the modules in place a long time and so can swap batteries.

4) If you can, do not solder the control buttons directly to the outbound line circuitry. Having something that is pluggable allows for easier fixing with new boards.



#6 Arthur

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 05:26 AM

For the fun of the build, there is purpose for making a firing system. BUT for the content of wallet there is little purpose! EVERY combination of battery, wire, data rate, and cue count is already available as a retail or professional firing system. With my system there are local fireworkers who will lend me bits to extend or change my system for a show and the supplier will deliver parts, spares etc next day. 



#7 SephYuyX

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Posted 21 March 2018 - 05:15 PM

I had a duh moment. Someone suggested just using an off the shelf RJ45 selector. This would reduce any sort of missfire on common return lines, and be pretty simple to use.

 

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#8 frederick

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Posted 23 March 2018 - 02:50 AM

 

Also, I am curious if anyone knows the answer to this but, how do some of these pro ethernet systems get 12 channels on one rail with only eight wires?

 

Thanks, dont be too rough on me.

 

You just double up the sink lines and drop the high side to 6... 2 ground planes and 6 high side planes give you 12 cues on 8 wires.

 

I build a 144 cue sequencer on that principle with 6 high side relays and 24 sink relays. 12 Slats connect to the primary controller, which is Arduino based, and it uses the same electrical architecture as Joe's (JoeRatMan). 


Edited by frederick, 23 March 2018 - 02:52 AM.





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