Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Homemade Wire Wound Igniters

Igniters E-match wire pyrogen nitrocellulose homemade igniters resistors

  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1 FBpyro

FBpyro

    Playing with fire

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 11 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Pyro(Duhh), electronics, tech, cars, cooking(slightly).

Posted 23 June 2017 - 11:37 AM

Finally finished making a batch of wire-wound igniters dipped in black powder and nitrocellulose lacquer made from ping pong balls; unfortunately 5 out of the 40 I made do not work. I went and measured the resistance of each and somehow all of them have high resistances, I don't understand why because there are only a few turns of thin gauge steel wool strand between both sides of the wire. My best guess is there is additional resistance being built up in the many wraps around both ends where it makes contact with the copper wire. You'd think that it would short together at that point but something must have gone wrong. 

 

Oh well, I went and ordered some talon igniters which I'll use instead this year, I can at least salvage the 24 gauge shooting wire I used to make these. 

 

Attached File  20170621_185628.jpg   36.15KB   4 downloads

Attached File  20170621_190837.jpg   61.14KB   3 downloads

Attached File  20170621_194559.jpg   167.58KB   3 downloads

Attached File  20170621_190852.jpg   49.43KB   2 downloads

Attached File  20170621_185648.jpg   270.25KB   3 downloads



#2 carbonhalo

carbonhalo

    Pyromaniac

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 67 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Classified

Posted 23 June 2017 - 05:59 PM

I found that the BP slurry water made the steel rust very quickly, increasing the resistance to the point of uselessness, so I dip the steel wool in PP lacquer before the slurry to waterproof it. The problem then is the added time to fire the lacquer. They work but take more than a second to ignite.



#3 lloyd

lloyd

    Firebreather

  • Donator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,952 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 23 June 2017 - 07:44 PM

Polypropylene lacquer?  Really?  

 

1) I've never seen any polypropylene lacquer available for sale.

2) I wonder if you've ever heard of a strange substance known as "nitrocellulose".

 

Hmmmm?

 

LLoyd


"Pyro for Fun and Profit for More Than Fifty Years"


#4 OldMarine

OldMarine

    Firebreather

  • Donator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,498 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lebanon Tn
  • Interests:Interests? Everything interesting!

Posted 23 June 2017 - 08:03 PM

I'm just constantly stocking up on the Chi-com igniters before they outlaw them.


Come on! Name one other hobby in which you cheer as your money and hard work go up in smoke!

#5 FBpyro

FBpyro

    Playing with fire

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 11 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Pyro(Duhh), electronics, tech, cars, cooking(slightly).

Posted 24 June 2017 - 09:38 AM

That is a good theory carbonhalo! though I never used water in the entire process, I melted my nitrocellulose with acetone which is the traditional way. However I suppose there could still be a way that the steel wool could have oxidized inside as it was drying. I left them outside to dry overnight and I didn't think it was particularly humid.

The starnge thing is I tested one of the first ones the day I dipped them cause it was dry within 20 minutes, and it lit just fine l! So something happened within 24hrs that changed the properties of them.

#6 carbonhalo

carbonhalo

    Pyromaniac

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 67 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Classified

Posted 24 June 2017 - 05:54 PM

lol Lloyd.... I was referring to ping pong as I'm sure you know..........but polypropylene is soluble in xylene.

I wonder how dry FBs acetone was



#7 lloyd

lloyd

    Firebreather

  • Donator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,952 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 24 June 2017 - 06:38 PM

Carbon, no... that wasn't clear.  I tend to spell-out things that might be confused with other things of the same "initials".  As a result, I get confused by others' posting of abbreviations that can mean more than one thing.

 

And PP is NOT particularly soluble in xylene at room temp... only slightly.  (and I've tried it)

-------------------------

  Material Properties

     

  Polypropylene Chemical Resistance:

       

Resistant to the following chemicals at room temperature...

         

  • Acetic acid
  • Acetone
  • Acetonitrile
  • Amino Acids
  • Ammonia
  • Ammonium Acetate
  • Aniline (50% wt)
  • *Benzene
  • Butanol
  • Calcium Hydroxide
  • Carbazole
  • Chloroacetophenone
  • *Chloroform
  • *Cyclohexanol
  • Cyclohexanone
  • *Diethyl Ether
  • *Diethylene Glycol
    Dimethylformamide (DMF)
  • Dimethylsulfoxide (DMSO)
    Isopropyl Alcohol
  • Methanol
  • Methyl Acetate 
    Methyl ethyl ketone
  • *Methylene Chloride
    *Perchloroethylene 
    *Dioxane
    *Dipropylene Glycol
  • Ethanol
  • Ethyl Alcohol
  • *Ethyl Acetate
  • Ethylene Glycol
  • Fluorides
  • Formaldehyde (30%)
  • Formic Acid
  • *Heptanes
  • Hydrochloric Acid (30%)
  • Hydrofluoric Acid (40%)
    Hydrobromic Acid (50%)
    Phosphoric Acid (85%)
  • Potassium Hydroxide (50%)
  • Propanol
    *Pyridine
  • Sodium Acetate
  • Sodium Chloride
  • Sodium Hydroxide (50%)
  • Sodium Nitrate
  • Sulphuric Acid (85%)
    *Tetrachloroethane
  • *Tetrahydrofuran (THF)
  • *Toluene
    *Trichloroethylene
  • Triethelene Glycol
    *Xylene

   

* denotes partial resistance

       

Not resistant to the following...

       

Bromoform
Butyric Acid
Carbon Disulfide
Dichloromethane 
Ether
Methyl Sulfoxide
Piperidine
Trifluoroacetic (TFA)

       


For a complete and comprehensive list refer to the following (.pdf)
Courtesy of Basell Polyolefins.

       

 

Lloyd


Edited by lloyd, 24 June 2017 - 06:39 PM.

"Pyro for Fun and Profit for More Than Fifty Years"


#8 carbonhalo

carbonhalo

    Pyromaniac

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 67 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Classified

Posted 27 June 2017 - 07:00 PM

I stand corrected regarding polypropylenes solubility.



#9 lloyd

lloyd

    Firebreather

  • Donator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,952 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 June 2017 - 07:16 PM

Eh, Carbon... not trying to "correct", just "clarify".  Sometimes those 'little things' can lead us down dirt roads!

 

Lloyd


"Pyro for Fun and Profit for More Than Fifty Years"


#10 Phil

Phil

    Playing with fire

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 16 posts

Posted 07 August 2020 - 10:30 AM

How long does pong lacquer take to fully cure? I haven't been able to successfully make a batch. I've gotten at best a coating that intermittently sparks if you hold a flame to it but won't stay going if you remove the heat.



#11 Bourbon

Bourbon

    Pyromaniac

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 196 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oregon
  • Interests:1# BP Stingers right now.

Posted 07 August 2020 - 01:05 PM

It should cure pretty quick but 24 hours is great anyway. If your ping pong balls don't smell heavy of camphor, they are not what your looking for.



#12 SharkWhisperer

SharkWhisperer

    Pyrotechnician

  • Donator
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 614 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 14 August 2020 - 05:53 PM

 

Finally finished making a batch of wire-wound igniters dipped in black powder and nitrocellulose lacquer made from ping pong balls; unfortunately 5 out of the 40 I made do not work. I went and measured the resistance of each and somehow all of them have high resistances, I don't understand why because there are only a few turns of thin gauge steel wool strand between both sides of the wire. My best guess is there is additional resistance being built up in the many wraps around both ends where it makes contact with the copper wire. You'd think that it would short together at that point but something must have gone wrong. 

 

 

Oh well, I went and ordered some talon igniters which I'll use instead this year, I can at least salvage the 24 gauge shooting wire I used to make these. 

 

 

attachicon.gif 20170621_185628.jpg

attachicon.gif 20170621_190837.jpg

attachicon.gif 20170621_194559.jpg

attachicon.gif 20170621_190852.jpg

attachicon.gif 20170621_185648.jpg

 

Are you sure your power source is shooting enough amps to fire? What's "high" resistance to you? Also, why not use known-gauge nichrome wire instead of (cheaper, I know, but nichrome is only about $6 for 500 feet--maybe it was only 200...anyways, enough to last a good while) steel wool strands that 1) likely vary tremendously in thickness (and thus resistance) from strand-to-strand after twisting/untwisting (and it's steel wool so manufacturing specs are not very stringent), and 2) almost certainly requires a more powerful current to fire?

 

What kind of firing unit are you using? Battery specs? Length and gauge of shooting wire? Single or multiple strands? Pure copper or copper-coated aluminum (a lotta complaints on Amazon about advertising pure and receiving coated)? Have you calculated total resistance from battery (including internal battery resistance), shooting wire, and igniter? Have you determined how many amps you needed to fire the 35 igniters that worked? Was there any delay or instantaneous ignition? You can easily dissolve your coating off of your igniters with some acetone to see if your steel wire remains intact, unbroken, and not rusted.

 

I make lots of igniters with 34 to 40g nichrome, never bother with the hassle of soldering any more (coat the wraps with pyrogen or use a dab of superglue), and rarely have a failure. And like Old Marine said, you  can also get pretty decent Chicom igniters with pyrogen on Ebay (while you can still get them) for a semi-reasonable price. Way way better than that Talon toaster wire/plastic clothes pin shit, in my opinion. Don't accidentally order the Chicom Talon knock-offs. They "usually" work. True Talons are way overpriced, I think. When I press the button, I want instantaneous ignition, not waiting around for the toaster wire to finally burn through some visco coating and finally ignite...You can add a droplet of hot pyrogen in NC lacquer to either your fuse or Talon wire to speed things up a little. A perc/al slurry gets a little hotter than the usual BP slurry.


Edited by SharkWhisperer, 14 August 2020 - 06:13 PM.


#13 Arthur

Arthur

    Firebreather

  • HE Qualified
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,439 posts

Posted 15 August 2020 - 11:03 AM

The challenge is the dipping comp used for the pyrogen on the filament. Lots are long term corrosive and slowly eat away the bridge wire or it's solder joints. Oda-ent.com sell premade inert bridgewire chips. What the professional igniter compound is I don't know.



#14 SharkWhisperer

SharkWhisperer

    Pyrotechnician

  • Donator
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 614 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 18 August 2020 - 12:23 PM

The challenge is the dipping comp used for the pyrogen on the filament. Lots are long term corrosive and slowly eat away the bridge wire or it's solder joints. Oda-ent.com sell premade inert bridgewire chips. What the professional igniter compound is I don't know.

Dunno, Arthur,

 

I've stored (forgotten) mine for over a year, exposed to freezing/pretty hot temp cycles in a unit without climate control, and they remain pretty reliable. Whether I just dip deeply (and very lightly on first dip) to cover all exposed wires or attach nichrome twists to the solid copper ends with a drop of superglue. With NC lacquer, and not really paying attention to water content in acetone for this purpose (can't imagine much remains captured in the NC after thorough drying, and might expect little oxygen diffusion to metal to enhance reactions), using BP, perc-Al based, or other similar pyrogens, I've never really had any issue. Maybe I'm just lucky, but never had any identifiable corrosion issues,and they all seem to flame up like new with a hot electric jolt. Steel wool seems to me to be the most likely culprit in causing our friend's ignition failures (and probably much more susceptible to any pyrogen-induced corrosion/rusting than either nichrome or pure single strand copper. I do squeeze my nichrome/copper connections with a needle-nose pliers before supergluing, so that might push the nichrome into better contact with the more malleable copper wire...



#15 Bourbon

Bourbon

    Pyromaniac

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 196 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oregon
  • Interests:1# BP Stingers right now.

Posted 18 August 2020 - 12:47 PM

I have had great success with Kanthal and Nichrome both. I dip mine in NC then Mg.

 

Just tested one thee other day 3 1/2 years old. Worked like new.

 

I was told not to use Mg anymore because there could be water content in the acetone used to produce the dip. I have never had any problems doing this. Not to say anyone wouldn't have problems, but I'll continue doing so.



#16 WRAITH

WRAITH

    Playing with fire

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 30 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Australia
  • Interests:Chemistry, Pyrotechnics, Mini Scale Modern Cannons Jet Turbines (thermodynamics), Model Rocketry, Electrotechnology, Mechanical Engineering & Philosophy.

Posted 09 February 2021 - 06:05 AM

Your best bet was to solder them onto double sided pc board. Not one fails the way i make mine. Testing your circuit is a failsafe way by using a torch. Take the end cap off, touch one wire to the body negative & the other wire to the battery negative & with the switch on, the led should illuminate thus completing a circuit.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Igniters, E-match, wire, pyrogen, nitrocellulose, homemade igniters, resistors

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users