Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Making Flash Cotton, NitroCellulose, Gun Cotton - How To Video

Flash Cotton NitroCellulose Gun Cotton

  • Please log in to reply
21 replies to this topic

#1 joncammarata

joncammarata

    Smelt the smoke

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 2 posts

Posted 23 February 2017 - 08:58 AM

This video, https://youtu.be/DlsujECE89o, is a great guide for making Flash Cotton, Nitro-cellulose, Gun Cotton - whatever you want to call it. You can dissolve in acetone to make make a slightly more volatile lacquer than most other recipe's. It's great for smoke free Reports, also. Enjoy!


Edited by joncammarata, 23 February 2017 - 09:01 AM.

  • memo likes this

#2 Edd

Edd

    Playing with fire

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 11 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 24 February 2017 - 10:33 AM

You got a funny definition of "great".  



#3 memo

memo

    Pyrotechnician

  • Donator
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 752 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:central america
  • Interests:gold mining, now fireworking

Posted 24 February 2017 - 12:35 PM

it may not be great it is pretty good. i used the same process and it  worked fine


Edited by memo, 24 February 2017 - 12:36 PM.


#4 lloyd

lloyd

    Firebreather

  • Donator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,952 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 24 February 2017 - 01:47 PM

Tell me how long it lasts (before beginning to slightly yellow) in room-temperature storage, Memo.

 

I'm betting such instructions won't include how to thoroughly neutralize the resultant NC.

 

Lloyd


"Pyro for Fun and Profit for More Than Fifty Years"


#5 OldMarine

OldMarine

    Firebreather

  • Donator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,498 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lebanon Tn
  • Interests:Interests? Everything interesting!

Posted 24 February 2017 - 04:44 PM

I've made NC before and even after multiple baking soda washes it still yellowed after only a week or so and tested slightly acidic. I was told I'd need to shred it into tiny pieces and use a stronger alkaline solution to get total neutralization. I gave it up after that.


Come on! Name one other hobby in which you cheer as your money and hard work go up in smoke!

#6 taiwanluthiers

taiwanluthiers

    Firebreather

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,420 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 25 February 2017 - 01:41 AM

Yea it would be dangerous if your composition went off because the NC decomposed...

 

I mean I read ammo cache have been known to spontaneously explode due to NC decomposing. (I don't mean small arms ammo, I mean high explosive NC that has been nitrated higher)


Edited by taiwanluthiers, 25 February 2017 - 01:42 AM.


#7 Arthur

Arthur

    Firebreather

  • HE Qualified
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,439 posts

Posted 25 February 2017 - 03:45 AM

For what it is -a bit of quick fun- it works. What it ISN'T is a commercial method of making mil-spec product.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...europe-14102253

 

is a report of a cook off of major proportions -about 100 ISO containers full!- you wouldn't make that much without attracting the wrong kind of attention!



#8 lloyd

lloyd

    Firebreather

  • Donator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,952 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 25 February 2017 - 08:00 AM

"I mean high explosive NC that has been nitrated higher..."

---------------

Even high-nitration nitrocellulose is a deflagrating explosive, NOT a "high explosive".

 

The problem with home-brew NC is that it involves a difficult and lengthy process to properly neutralize it after nitration.  Even then, it will slowly decay when dry, (and even more-slowly wet, but even then).  It's only when it's mixed with certain stabilizers that it becomes a suitable propellant for long-lived ammunition.

 

LLoyd


"Pyro for Fun and Profit for More Than Fifty Years"


#9 DavidF

DavidF

    Pyrotechnician

  • Donator
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 325 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 25 February 2017 - 11:05 AM

As I understand it, the higher the nitration level, the lower the stability. The stuff in the video was slow, IMO. Lloyd, I've always understood that highly nitrated cotton is a high explosive and can be detonated. I've 'done' it, but I will admit that it was soaked with methyl nitrate.

 

I've kept home-brewed guncotton around for maybe a month before it started decomposing noticeably. But how does a guy keep it around that long even? The stuff is just so darned fun to play with! :)



#10 Mumbles

Mumbles

    Grandmaster

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,741 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Above You

Posted 25 February 2017 - 12:29 PM

Higher nitration NC is certainly a high explosive. It has a detonation velocity higher than TNT. Urbanski or Federov Will confirm this designation as well. The stuff from the video would not meet this qualification, but if done right it is. It's not always easy to get it to go off in it's natural fiber consistency. Once you get over 13% nitration or so, you can get it to detonate from impact tests without too much trouble if you want to prove it to yourself that it's truly an HE.

The yellowing comes from residual acid and various other compounds. I've managed to make NC than was just as white as the day I made it 6 months later. It's doable, just not easy. After a thorough washing and neutralization, treatment with urea helps to destroy residual acid and nitrogen compounds that accelerate decomposition. Diphenylamine is sometimes added to commercial stuff to help stabilize.

I forgot about a sample, or it never would have made it that long. Like David said, it's just too fun.

I should also mention that while fun on a small scale, the nitration gets exponentially more dangerous on larger scales. Like scales that would be useful for us.
Just so you guys quit asking, here is the link to the old forum. http://www.xsorbit2....forum/index.cgi

The sky is my canvas, and I have 2,113 pounds of powdered paint in the workshop.

#11 lloyd

lloyd

    Firebreather

  • Donator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,952 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 25 February 2017 - 01:43 PM

Higher nitration NC is certainly a high explosive. It has a detonation velocity higher than TNT.

----

Yeah... Opinions abound.  But Hardt and the US military don't agree.  Even high-nitration NC is processed on military ammunition facilities as if it were a deflagratory explosive.  (I have spent a GREAT DEAL of time - years - in such facilities, so I'm not guessing what their opinion of it is...)

 

Nitroglycerine is added to double-base powders to increase the combustion velocity.  FWIW, the military's interpretation MIGHT consider the combined mass required with the velocity of the detonator, in order to cause it to go high-order.  It will NOT do that (even contained) when ignited by just heat.

 

Weirdly-enough, the US military considers black powder a high explosive (for processing/use setbacks)!  Go fig'!! <grin>

 

Lloyd


Edited by lloyd, 25 February 2017 - 01:51 PM.

"Pyro for Fun and Profit for More Than Fifty Years"


#12 OldMarine

OldMarine

    Firebreather

  • Donator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,498 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lebanon Tn
  • Interests:Interests? Everything interesting!

Posted 25 February 2017 - 06:35 PM

Mumbles, is there an article you could point me toward regarding the use of urea to neutralize the residual acid? Several washes with baking soda and an 8 hour soak in the same didn't do the trick and as I said above I'd like to know how to make it  if I needed to. All of the (understandable) info I've found just repeats the same process that I used before.


Come on! Name one other hobby in which you cheer as your money and hard work go up in smoke!

#13 Mumbles

Mumbles

    Grandmaster

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,741 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Above You

Posted 26 February 2017 - 04:21 PM

This patent covers it somewhat.  There is also some information scattered about ScienceMadness, which I believe is where I got the idea from the in the first place.  There is at least a brief mention of it's use in Tenny L Davis' Chemistry of Powder and Explosives.  It's not perfect, but it can help.  Very thorough washing is critical. 

 

https://www.google.c...atents/US605931


Just so you guys quit asking, here is the link to the old forum. http://www.xsorbit2....forum/index.cgi

The sky is my canvas, and I have 2,113 pounds of powdered paint in the workshop.

#14 OldMarine

OldMarine

    Firebreather

  • Donator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,498 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lebanon Tn
  • Interests:Interests? Everything interesting!

Posted 26 February 2017 - 05:03 PM

Interesting, every failure he mentioned was the same as I experienced! If this was known since 1898 why the hell didn't someone pick up on it in YouTube yet! :whistle:  


Come on! Name one other hobby in which you cheer as your money and hard work go up in smoke!

#15 Mumbles

Mumbles

    Grandmaster

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,741 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Above You

Posted 28 February 2017 - 10:28 AM

It's been known in the home chemistry world for at least 10-15 years as well.  Not exactly secret knowledge.  Sometimes you just need to do your homework. 


Just so you guys quit asking, here is the link to the old forum. http://www.xsorbit2....forum/index.cgi

The sky is my canvas, and I have 2,113 pounds of powdered paint in the workshop.

#16 OldMarine

OldMarine

    Firebreather

  • Donator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,498 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lebanon Tn
  • Interests:Interests? Everything interesting!

Posted 28 February 2017 - 05:42 PM

It's been known in the home chemistry world for at least 10-15 years as well.  Not exactly secret knowledge.  Sometimes you just need to do your homework. 

I was poking fun at myself for not researching further.


Come on! Name one other hobby in which you cheer as your money and hard work go up in smoke!

#17 otto

otto

    Pyromaniac

  • Donator
  • PipPipPip
  • 154 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:WI

Posted 28 February 2017 - 06:54 PM

I was poking fun at myself for not researching further.

The problem with YouTube is at least 80% is total unsafe, unsubstantiated BS. Your only sin is in not digging deep enough and being selective enough.

 

The truth is out there.....  :ph34r:  ;)



#18 OldMarine

OldMarine

    Firebreather

  • Donator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,498 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lebanon Tn
  • Interests:Interests? Everything interesting!

Posted 28 February 2017 - 06:57 PM

I honestly haven't looked into it since my first try and there was no internet back then.


Come on! Name one other hobby in which you cheer as your money and hard work go up in smoke!

#19 otto

otto

    Pyromaniac

  • Donator
  • PipPipPip
  • 154 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:WI

Posted 28 February 2017 - 07:50 PM

I honestly haven't looked into it since my first try and there was no internet back then.

Geez OM, how far back does that go? Heck fire, Al Gore only invented the Internet in, what, the late 90's.....   B)

 

I'm at least a beginners Old Guy and I can remember that. To your point though, there is mega crap ton of misinformation to wade through to get to the truth.

 

That's why I like APC. Great info from folks that really do instead of parrot anything and everything on YouTube. Worth it's weight in lead media....

 

Hey, no disrespect intended. Just havin' a little fun. Heck, the web's only been around for maybe not quite 20 years. Drop in the bucket of knowledge. Thing is, it allows for folks to share like was never possible before. Gotta love it!



#20 OldMarine

OldMarine

    Firebreather

  • Donator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,498 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lebanon Tn
  • Interests:Interests? Everything interesting!

Posted 28 February 2017 - 07:57 PM

I was mainly pointing out the trust many people put in youtube without vetting the info first. You've got to wonder how many of those firework fail videos began with the poor schlub watching an "educational" video and taking it as gospel because "I seen it!" 


Come on! Name one other hobby in which you cheer as your money and hard work go up in smoke!





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Flash Cotton, NitroCellulose, Gun Cotton

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users