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Anti Aircraft FLAK burst


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#1 ClayDog

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 09:07 AM

I'm working on a daytime black burst.
This one is 3" ball with 10g charge of 70/30 boom boom surrounded by 40g airfloat charcoal. I pushed it with an Estes D12-0, that took it about 150 feet.
We used to make them with used copier toner (resin), hard to find now. Going to try black chalk next.

Anyone know a decent flash comp that creates black smoke? Cant find much on it...

Thx

CD


Edited by ClayDog, 13 January 2017 - 11:04 AM.

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#2 lloyd

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 11:32 AM

Try Shimizu's black naphthalene star.  There are two in Lancaster... I forget it's number, but it's chlorate and naphthalene.

 

It's a great daylight black.  If you make the stars very small, it'll make a black cloud with little spikes that look a lot like ack-ack.

 

Lloyd


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#3 ClayDog

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 02:24 PM

Howdy Lloyd, thx for response.
Shimizu Black Smoke stars. I did make some 3 days ago, 0.5". They are in a baggie. In another baggie. Then in a quart bell mason jar.
Stinky sons a bitches they are.
I had not considered making them part of the burst as smaller stars, good idea. Durn sure will NOT make next batch in the shop.
Will post results here, probably popping them with the black chalk burst.

CD

#4 AzoMittle

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 04:20 AM

Black Smoke Stars (Daylight Stars - Shimizu)[
Potassium chlorate 44
Antimony 24
Napthalene 26
Dextrin 6
Use quickly else keep very tightly sealed. The Napthalene will evaporate if the stars are left in a device or left unsealed. The resultant star would be very sensitive. Always press these mixtures.
 

 

Another version by Ken Miller:
potassium chlorate - 60 %
napthalene, - 20 mesh (crushed flakes or mothballs are just fine) - 40%
antimony sulphide, dust - +4%
This mix was meant to be safer than the Shimizu version - and looks like it should be. Put this in a 1" tube with 1/2" nozzle or no nozzle. Light with a slight bit of comp and blackmatch.  Always press these mixtures.
 

 

An Easy Black/Gray Smoke (military formula) that produces volumes
Hydrochloroethane  45
Zinc Oxide 45
Dark Aluminum 10

Prime using 50/50 smoke mix and meal then 100 meal.

 

 

 

Quoted ad verbatim from: http://www.creagan.n...html#smokestars

I cannot comment on how well these will work as stars versus ground effects (or if they will at all...). If you try any of them please report back!

 

It is worth noting that the last formula Creagan lists is very similar to Ellern's Grey Smoke:

 

Ellern's Grey Smoke

45.5 Zinc oxide

45.5 HCE

09.0 Calcium silicide

 

Another smoke that might work (again, no promises) would be:

 

Faber's Brown Smoke

47.4 Potassium nitrate

29.2 Asphalt resin

10.6 Sodium borate

04.9 Calcium carbonate

04.0 Sand

03.9 Sulfur


Terminat hora diem; Terminat author opus.
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Oh lente lente noctis equi!
Slowly, slowly run oh horses of the night!
 
Perfection does not exist, but that does not mean you cannot work constantly to attain it.
 
The really important kind of freedom involves attention, and awareness, and discipline, and effort, and being able truly to care about other people and to sacrifice for them, over and over, in myriad petty little unsexy ways, every day. . . . The only thing that's capital-T True is that you get to decide how you're going to try to see it. You get to consciously decide what has meaning and what doesn't. . . . The trick is keeping the truth up-front in daily consciousness. -David Foster Wallace


#5 ClayDog

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 05:23 AM

Thx AzoMittle,

It looks like Ken Millers mix might make a denser smoke. Will try it! What I have found with Shimizu is that if you spill the smoke stars they make better trails. If you break the shell hard, they ignite & fly fine, but traveling too fast to leave a real smoke trail.

Thx

CD

#6 lloyd

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 07:08 AM

I've made the Shimizu smoke on numerous occasions.  At least with larger stars, you can break it hard, like a chrysanthemum should be done, and they leave dense, highly-visible trails.  But I can see how - if they were very small - there wouldn't be all that much smoke to see in each star's trail.

 

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#7 AzoMittle

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 07:47 AM

I was able to track down a couple other black smoke formulations that may work, I can send them to you if you want.

 

Generally speaking all of the smokes I have are based around either dyes, an extremely slow burning / smoldering pot, or a system of oxidizer (potassium chlorate or nitrate) + carbon source(s) (charcoal, HCE, lampblack) + anthracene and/or naphtalene; some are modified with aluminum, magnesium, sulfur, realgar, or stearin. There are also some based off of zinc like the Ellern's I quoted above.

 

Here are some examples of the more interesting ones. As always, caveat emptor:

 

Smoke, Black Intense

50.0 HCB

17.0 A-Napthol

11.0 Magnesium

09.5 Potassium nitrate

06.0 Lampblack

04.0 Anthracene

03.0 Sulfur

00.5 Asphalt resin

 

Ellern #134

50 Cupric oxide

35 Lead dioxide

15 Magnesium

 

Black Smoke Pot

70 Potassium nitrate

30 Red gum

10 Barium nitrate

10 Stearin


Terminat hora diem; Terminat author opus.
The hour ends the day; The author ends his work.
 
Oh lente lente noctis equi!
Slowly, slowly run oh horses of the night!
 
Perfection does not exist, but that does not mean you cannot work constantly to attain it.
 
The really important kind of freedom involves attention, and awareness, and discipline, and effort, and being able truly to care about other people and to sacrifice for them, over and over, in myriad petty little unsexy ways, every day. . . . The only thing that's capital-T True is that you get to decide how you're going to try to see it. You get to consciously decide what has meaning and what doesn't. . . . The trick is keeping the truth up-front in daily consciousness. -David Foster Wallace


#8 WSM

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 02:17 PM

Instead of air-float charcoal or black chalk, why don't you try lampblack fluffed up with some Cab-O-Sil? I think it would have the best air burst appearance.

 

Good luck.

 

WSM B)  



#9 FlaMtnBkr

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 06:35 AM

Wasn't copy toner some type of lampblack?

If so, lampblack may get you close to the original. Though there are many different types from what I understand. I think there are also much cheaper sources than pyro suppliers if it doesn't need to burn.

#10 lloyd

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 08:29 AM

Fla,

No... it's a fusible black plastic in sub-micron particle size.  So it looks a lot like lampblack.  Only, this stuff melts at high temperatures, and doesn't burn worth a hoot.

 

Lloyd


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#11 mabuse00

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Posted 11 September 2021 - 06:40 AM

Have you seen those salutes?

At 1:00.

 



 

I would rarely shoot anything in daylight, but this makes me curious. How is this done?

Smokemix like mentioned above mixed in flash? Or flash surrounded by naphtalene, like a fuel/air explosive?


Edited by mabuse00, 11 September 2021 - 06:42 AM.





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