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long lasting gold glitter

glitter sodium nitrate nitrate sodium gold pirotex alcoa

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#41 PeteyPyro

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 07:03 PM

Nice gold glitter. Thanks for the video.
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#42 Sulphurstan

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 02:16 PM

So, here is my attempt to copy Pirotex' great rocket. I got pretty close! I also used some of the composition to make comets, which I 'married' to some chlorate purple.
 
https://www.youtube....h?v=Iui7o5yhtHU
 
https://www.youtube....h?v=7z2caIKDmCM


OMG, these were a must! Thanks for sharing

#43 Yus

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 08:57 AM

Advice me, please, several glitter compositions without Sb2S3 for the rolling stars. I'm going to make stars with Glitter to Red Peony.



#44 OldMarine

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 05:26 PM

D1 and N1 glitters are very good and have no antimony.

 

http://pyrodata.com/...ions/N1-Glitter

 

http://www.skylighte...tter-comets.asp


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#45 PhoenixRising

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 09:10 PM

Just wanted to stop in and say that I got this composition to work, and it's quite nice.  Thanks for sharing! 

 

Used 30-60 Mg/Al, Southern Pine, and 11 percent moisture for pumping (water with 10 percent methanol).  Mill everything (Minus the Mg/Al) for 20 minutes give or take, add moisture, thoroughly mix moisture in then screen it good, lastly add Mg/Al, mix it in and pump your stars etc.  

 

A couple of star tests up close, I noticed a nice orange charcoal stream with floating delayed Mg/Al flashes similar to FSFOY, only they were solid orange flashes with less hangtime/faster timing.  The Mg/Al flashes seem to happen on their own nice and clean and not so drossy, which I think can be attributed to high charcoal content and low sulfur.  The residual sodium really makes a nice orange flash on the Mg/Al flakes as well as color the charcoal a bit.  The coarseness of the Mg/Al is critical in this, I doubt anything bigger than 80 or 100 mesh would work as you would either get very quick flashes or none at all as the Mg/Al would get burned in the flame envelope before getting 'kicked out.'   I'm sure adding some Sodium Bicarbonate would increase the delay if one chose to do so.  

 

Quite interesting how long the delay is given there is no 'normal' delay agent (carbonates, oxalates) in it.  I've had simlar results subbing a mix of Strontium and Potassium Nitrate in this same formula a while ago, only the flashes were white and the charcoal burned slightly more red.  I do have video of that one, and will have have video of this one very soon.  I am going to make a batch with all strontium and, heck, maybe even a barium one just for comparison.  

 

I wonder if using strontium nitrate and strontium carbonate together would yeild red or pink flashes with a longer delay?  I don't have strontium carbonate but I do have the nitrate for inital testing.  Expecting to see redish/darker charcoal burn with pink flashes.   

 

I'll get a video up soon of some 1.75 comets, along with other stuff I've accumulated while I've been gone (on other threads of course).  Good to see this forum and some of the old faces, been a long while.  



#46 Mumbles

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 10:48 PM

The flashes of strontium nitrate and strontium carbonate are at best slightly pink.  Part of it might be wishful thinking and a preconceived expectation.  There's a set of formulas called pampanino, pimpinella, pampanella, or something similar you might be interested in looking into.  Good red colors or glitters require chlorine, but chlorine has a nasty habit of killing glitters.  It's a tough nut to crack, but where there's a will, there's a way.

 

It's interesting you bring up firefly.  I've long thought that this formula is closer to a firefly composition than a true glitter.  They're related, but function on somewhat different mechanisms.  Doesn't make it any less breathtaking though.  


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#47 PhoenixRising

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 09:29 AM

I think you hit the nail on the head, this could be thought of as a "Fast Golden Firefly" or the likes.  Would adding a little Sodium Bicarb slow it down enough to make it a true long-hanging Orange firefly?  (on cocaine of course as it's a Mg/Al firefly and not Aluminum)  I'm very curious and think that it would be a great variation on firefly glitter.  

 

About the Strontium Nitrate test version:  After success with Winokur 1 and seeing noticable pink flashes, I'm hoping we can make a pink firelfy glitter (pink flaming sh*t falls on you) and control the delay with Strontium Carbonate while not losing the pink color.  The quesiton is will it burn the right temp to get delayed pink flashes, or will it just flash white?  

 

I have a feeling the barium nitrate version is just going to make white flashes and essentially be another workaround to a version of FSFOY.... which also brings up that we are using Dextrin and not Starpol and getting almost the same results, albeit a bit more is used.  I personally hate the fluffiness of Starpol and wonder if I'll continue using it for such comps? 

 

Milling up some Strontium today, will update when there's more results/video.   


Edited by PhoenixRising, 23 May 2018 - 09:31 AM.


#48 kingkama

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 06:01 AM

Try the Angy Pink Glitter (posted by me some tred back) and substitute the magnalium with 325 spherical alluminium. You will have a nice pinkish glitters

#49 PhoenixRising

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 01:16 PM

Thanks for the headsup I'll look into that!

As for 'sperimentin with strontium: the full strontium version gave me big dross pucks.... which could have been the result of undried SrNO3 being it has sat for a year and probably absorbed water. I've since dried it but probably won't retest. A mix of SrNO3 and KNO3 similar to Winokur 1 or 2 is usable and have done it before woth success. Yeilds a short firefly tail of white flashes.

Mixtures heavy in charcoal already take long to dry, and strontium don't help things. Perhaps it can be phenolic bound and wet with alcohol?

So busy I didn't barely get time to enjoy myself this 4th.


Edited by PhoenixRising, 06 July 2018 - 04:48 PM.


#50 kingkama

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 04:46 PM

Sad for the busy 4th july...i Also had problem with nitrate, so i stepped to carbonate and sulfate ( i like sulfate more than carbonate) wich are less or none higroscopic. May be an idea bond with phenolic but i think Will kill glitter...i use not more the 10% of 80-20 water acetone mix bonding with dextrin.

Edited by kingkama, 06 July 2018 - 04:55 PM.

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#51 PhoenixRising

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 09:28 AM

Really nice gold glitter.  Inspired by Pirotex's Long Hanging Gold Glitter:

 

45  NaNO3

32  C  (Southern Yellow Pine)

6    S

10  Aluminum (Alcoa 120)

7    Dextrin

optional 1% Boric Acid

 

Here's a little 1.75 cylinder.  Mind the asymetric burst, that's just my bad shell design.  

 

 

More experiments to do, but as is this one will be one of my go-to orange glitters.  


Edited by PhoenixRising, 30 August 2018 - 09:29 AM.


#52 PhoenixRising

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 12:58 PM

Mumbles, if you see this, would you mind merging this thread with the oringal thread by Pryotex? 

 

I'm not sure this deserves its own thread as it's more a modification of an existing formula.  

 

You could probably use the exact same ratio of the original formula and just sub Alcoa 120 for virtually the same effect as what I just shared. 

 

My original intent was to create a sodium nitrate streamer with some gold metal sparks.  I had no clue it would actually make a glitter.

 

There must be something different about the action of sodium, because I have a feeling the same formulation using potassium nitrate would not exhibit the same effect.  

 

Earlier, we chalked the action up to the natural delay characteristics of coarse Mg/Al, but in this case Aluminum works nearly the same way.  

 

Anywho, I thought this was at least worth sharing for the sake of discussion since I haven't seen anyone else try it yet. 


Edited by PhoenixRising, 30 August 2018 - 01:01 PM.


#53 NeighborJ

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Posted 02 September 2018 - 04:06 PM

I really don't understand how that glittered. I never would have guessed.

#54 PhoenixRising

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Posted 02 September 2018 - 10:38 PM

I was really surprised too.  There must be a delayed thermite type reaction between Sodium and Aluminum.  

 

Is the Sodium Nitrate breaking down into Sodium Oxide first?  Perhaps Sodium Sulfate? 

 

The flashes in the Alcoa version are silent unlike the original Mg/Al version, which has a nice sizzle to it.   


Edited by PhoenixRising, 02 September 2018 - 10:41 PM.


#55 NeighborJ

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 11:01 AM

I dont think its a goldschmidt reaction. I'm thinking its a reaction with atmospheric oxygen. If it was a sodium byproduct i would expectct the flashes to be gold, they appear white to me.

#56 PhoenixRising

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 02:04 PM

You have a keen eye, I was going to elaborate on the "whiteness" of the flashes.  

 

The original formula has golden flashes, which normally Mg/Al flashes white on its own.  

 

Before the Alcoa version was completely dry, the flashes were solid gold.  As it dried more, little asymetric sparks of white stared to protrude from the flashes.  

 

My theory is that, having finer particles, the 10 percent Alcoa has a much greater surface area than the coarse Mg/Al which the original specs, thus, there is not enough sulfur to properly coat all of the metal.  

 

I'd think adding a touch more sulfur would bring a little more gold into the flashes.  Only testing can tell though.  

 

As is, the flashes are still mostly orange, and even adding 3 percent Titanium (40-200 spherical) yeilded bright orange sparks coupled in, so there is definite Sodium contamination.  

 

Where's Dr. Shimizu when you need him.....  


Edited by PhoenixRising, 03 September 2018 - 02:06 PM.


#57 NeighborJ

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 04:27 PM

Hmm? I wonder if the final white flashes are the vestages of aluminum left over after that thin drossy layer of sulfer and sodium compounds burn off? They could just be tiny molted aluminum fireflys exposed to atmosphere after the other compounds burn off.
The effect is similar to the origional but not quite the same. The origional appeared to give multiple flashes from each drop of dross. I can't determine if that is happening with your version.

Instead of adding sulfer, i would try a different mesh size of aluminum to test your theorys. Coarser metal should decrease the glitter effect and help determine if the flashes are fireflys or molten balls of dross. A finer mesh should almost completely kill the glitter effect unless it is a drossy reaction.

One last idea, if it is drossy, i would expect that it could be produced by something added to the NaNO3 such as cabosil or MgCO3 to keep it free flowing during storage. It has been used in glitters before as a delay agent and is effective in tiny quantities. Only a change of suppliers would be able to make a determination if that is the case.

#58 PhoenixRising

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 05:17 PM

Well, I was hoping someone else would try the comp as written, without using boric acid, and note the results.  For once I actually used Boric Acid.

 

Problem is my boric wasn't broken down and was very coarse.  I tossed it in the mill with the other charcoal ingredients for 30 minutes, but I fear the coarse particles were not broken down enough.  This could possibly be the source of the white "Flecks." 

 

I think the argument of "what's a firefly, what's a glitter" is determined by particle shape and a lower sulfur content.  Traditionally either granular or flake and contains no (normal) delay agents, FSFOY being the exception, again the Barium Carbonate only increases the delay and can be left out, still having a firefly effect albeit much shorter in duration.  I'm not sure what you'd call the Alcoa version?.. a spherical firefly?

 

Using all coarse sperical Aluminum ('Breaking-Glass' Aluminum 30-80 mesh) should yeild all long hanging flashes, and it would have less surface area than finer, mixed Alcoa 120.  Using a finer mesh might yeild a short tail similar to Buttered Popcorn or, like you said, kill the glitter altogether.  My guess woud be anything finer than 325 mesh would be waste unless coupled with other meshes.  Using 200 should still yeild some flashes, IME with other glitters.  

 

I've never made a drossy glitter with all fine aluminum before, so it would be a weird test for me.

 

Personally I may opt to make it again, minus the boric acid, and sneak in about 3 percent more Sulfur.  If I still get white flecks then I would change the aluminum.  

The Alco 120 I'm using was given to me and I have no idea what source it came from.  I could have sworn I saw a flake-shaped particle in there.  Is it a "flitter glitter?"  Time to break out the jeweler's loupe.... 


Edited by PhoenixRising, 03 September 2018 - 05:36 PM.


#59 PhoenixRising

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 05:33 PM

Okay, so the particles are very much spherical aluminum.  What I thought was a flake must have been a fluke.  

 

Regardless, I think the action you described is correct, in being that it's atmospheric oxygen causing the flash and not a thermite reaction.  Being so silent I can't imagine it's a thermite. 

 

Can spherical Aluminum be subbed in other "firefly" type comps?   



#60 NeighborJ

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 05:40 PM

Alcoa 120 is a blend of various mesh sizes. I screened mine once and found some particles sat on a 60mesh screen and even a few layed on a 40mesh. It is said to have particles down to and including -325mesh. The old skylighter site had it broken down yo percentages of each mesh size but i haven't checked to see if Mike kept that particular info available.

The boric acid can be dissolved into a solution and used as the solvent. It can be made into a saturated solution with the excess laying on the bottom of the bottle. Only about 1% at most will dissolve and it will work as intended to limit the oxidation of aluminum in the comp. As the stars dry, the acid will form crystals in the comp.

This formula is not somethong i can test until the winter months. Ive had many issues with much less hygroscopic comps recently due to humidity.

Edited by NeighborJ, 03 September 2018 - 05:47 PM.






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