Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Black Match

black match

  • Please log in to reply
35 replies to this topic

#21 NeighborJ

NeighborJ

    Firebreather

  • Donator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,221 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pittsburgh pennsylvania
  • Interests:Rig welder, trecky, amateur rocketry

Posted 26 August 2016 - 09:51 AM

Wow, Roger this nc bm method is awesome. I saw this last night and just had to try it. It will be the only way I will make it from now on. Works great and it has given me a few other ideas. After making the match I then took a few rubber stars and threw them into the bm slurry and let them dissolve. I pulled some of the match thru this slurry and it made a nice slow fuse. It burns at 30 sec a ft, is rigid and the mgal and perc creates a nice hiss with plenty of side spit. I think I will use this for my rocket fuses and save my visco for other things. I will do some more consistency testing but I'm happy with it.
  • rogeryermaw likes this

#22 Tim1877

Tim1877

    Pyromaniac

  • Donator - HE
  • PipPipPip
  • 128 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Southern Illinois
  • Interests:Anything outdoors,splitting the night sky,the smell of burnt gunpowder

Posted 26 August 2016 - 09:30 PM

 

so i threw together a couple pieces of q.m. with nitro. the black match used is almost a year old. i started experimenting with it a couple months before last new year. i'm sure it can be optimized. i was just worried i didn't have enough match for my purposes at the time so decided to give this a try. after lining the wet string out to dry, this stuff can be used in about 30 minutes or so. certainly burns fast enough for me to use.

 

 

 

 
it was all spur of the moment so i don't have official measurements but with n.c. lacquer about the viscocity of a 5 weight synthetic oil and roughly equal portion of black powder by volume to produce a slurry a touch thicker than corn syrup, is what i used. too thick and it wont get into the fibers of the string very well.

 

So how do you thin your lacquer to proper consistency I was thinking just add small amounts of acetone till its right.


Tim

#23 NeighborJ

NeighborJ

    Firebreather

  • Donator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,221 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pittsburgh pennsylvania
  • Interests:Rig welder, trecky, amateur rocketry

Posted 26 August 2016 - 10:47 PM

Tim when I made the nc bm I mixed it in a 1pt mason jar. 3/4" of thick nc, 1 full cup of hot mill dust bp(no other binders)and topped it off with acetone until I had a workable slurry. It is far more runny then the normal slurry and would settle to the bottom. I had to give the slurry cup a stir every so often to keep it suspended. It was dry to the touch before I could loop it on the rack so there is no real need to keep the strands separate. I could also tie it in a knot without any comp flaking off. I love it and will not need to wait weeks for the match to dry. I ran it thru the cup a second time to catch a few spots which were pulled with an empty cup. It will burn on its own in open air at a steady rate, and it's still lightning fast in a tube.

Edited by NeighborJ, 26 August 2016 - 10:59 PM.

  • Tim1877 likes this

#24 Tim1877

Tim1877

    Pyromaniac

  • Donator - HE
  • PipPipPip
  • 128 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Southern Illinois
  • Interests:Anything outdoors,splitting the night sky,the smell of burnt gunpowder

Posted 27 August 2016 - 08:06 PM

Tim when I made the nc bm I mixed it in a 1pt mason jar. 3/4" of thick nc, 1 full cup of hot mill dust bp(no other binders)and topped it off with acetone until I had a workable slurry. It is far more runny then the normal slurry and would settle to the bottom. I had to give the slurry cup a stir every so often to keep it suspended. It was dry to the touch before I could loop it on the rack so there is no real need to keep the strands separate. I could also tie it in a knot without any comp flaking off. I love it and will not need to wait weeks for the match to dry. I ran it thru the cup a second time to catch a few spots which were pulled with an empty cup. It will burn on its own in open air at a steady rate, and it's still lightning fast in a tube.

Thanks this is how I'm going to make my next batch of BM. Just one other question I know the string has to be 100% cotton but what kind is the best to use?


Tim

#25 NeighborJ

NeighborJ

    Firebreather

  • Donator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,221 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pittsburgh pennsylvania
  • Interests:Rig welder, trecky, amateur rocketry

Posted 27 August 2016 - 08:14 PM

The string I use is the cheapest cotton string available, the more ragged the better. It tends to grab comp much better than the high quality stuff I use for spiking.
The label said #9x250' 3# working load.

#26 Steva555

Steva555

    Smelt the smoke

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 3 posts

Posted 15 April 2019 - 04:36 PM

Much more you make, much more you know and learn! But If you want to skip that you can watch this video it helped me make my own black match.



#27 BetICouldMake1

BetICouldMake1

    Pyromaniac

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 63 posts

Posted 15 April 2019 - 08:36 PM

Your video calls for 10% dextrin. You only need about 3-5%, any more than that can make your match hygroscopic. I know from past experience.

#28 dagabu

dagabu

    Grandmaster

  • Donator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,742 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Up Nort

Posted 16 April 2019 - 04:46 PM

Yeah, they are cute videos but miss the mark in a lot of ways. Match that thick means a LOT of flaming debris. The overall idea is solid, the music is annoying though. 


Dave
 
PGI Member http://www.pgi.org
IPA Member http://www.iowapyro.com
 
"The art of fire is indeed the supreme art; for fire is at once the universal slave, the universal master."

#29 Mike71

Mike71

    Playing with fire

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 16 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Maryland
  • Interests:My 3 boys.. pyrotechnics.. grilling.. playing
    Drums... learning

Posted 07 May 2019 - 03:14 PM

Donater can you give me you recipe
Im guessing you are making a thin lacquer
As opposed to what i use for Dragon eggs

#30 snapper

snapper

    Playing with fire

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 11 posts

Posted 27 June 2019 - 11:02 AM

people are led to think you are supposed to use the fastest hottest charcoal/bp to make match but this is simply not true, screen mixed fine/milled ingredients are all that are needed as well as slow charcoal like southern yellow pine or even commercial hardwood. You are making fuse and black match is supposed to burn rather slow, the slower the better until it is put into a paper sheith to make it piped match. you will never notice a difference between quick match made with pine or paulownia-ERC, bare black match you will notice but like i said you want it to burn slow for 99.9% of uses. You do not need fat, thick, round match! you want thin strands of FLAT match! as in 1-2 mm thickness of pure cotton string for max diameter size unless you are making fuse for a real cannon or thunder mug.

 Using lacquer based binder is great but becomes very expensive as well as adding more danger to the process and totally unnecessary, CMC is not a binding agent! it is a thickener and causes gelling of whatever water based liquid it is added to and is very important to use at about a 2% ratio to your slurry that helps with uniformity of coating of the exterior of the match as well as increase particles imbedded plus it seems to add elasticity once dried, should be used in conjunction with 2-3% of another water based binder (dex,gum arabic,sgrs). Thin match can dried in the sun until almost dried then rolled around a bucket base or gallon jug then fully dried in shade, or just dried in shade strait.

 If your match blows apart the paper pipe it is too fast and will cause you problems you do not want



#31 kingkama

kingkama

    Pyromaniac

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 62 posts

Posted 27 June 2019 - 02:27 PM

Yes may be dangerous but I start to make black match with a hot method. 98% of BP 2% of a water soluble binder, dissolve in water in a pot untill all is liquid. I use 5 grams of BP for a string of a meter so 10 strings 50 grams. Insert in the string in the solution and boil on a electric stove untill all wather is gone and the string start to fry. At this point put out of pot the string and start to beat them like a whip on a surface. The potassium Nitrate start to crystallize and the Match separate one from another in few hours in a windy day they are ready to use. The burn fast and without residue.

#32 Mumbles

Mumbles

    Grandmaster

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,470 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Above You

Posted 27 June 2019 - 08:05 PM

That is a very dumb method. I'd highly suggest to anyone reading this to not try actively boiling BP slurry. you can get the same results without the unsafe methods.

I like using hot water, which cools quickly from the nitrate, but that is heated elsewhere and never has the heating source exposed to BP.

I do also like using milled BP. I see where you're coming from snapper, but hand mixed mix tends to be too slaggy and easy to put out for me. I've had a few instances of match made that way failing to pass fire to inserts or give a jagged timing. I don't use necessarily the hottest BP, but it would definitely be fine for lift or burst.
Just so you guys quit asking, here is the link to the old forum. http://www.xsorbit2....forum/index.cgi

The sky is my canvas, and I have 2,113 pounds of powdered paint in the workshop.

#33 snapper

snapper

    Playing with fire

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 11 posts

Posted 27 June 2019 - 10:39 PM

if it is too chunky either your not milling the items enough before screen mixing, saturation issues that isopropyl alcohol will help overcome,  not screening enough times using too coarse of mesh or your string is absorbing the majority of nitrate before your done. Milled powder is easiest to use but super hot charcoal is overkill and not necessary for adequate consistent results. try soaking your spool of string in a nitrate saturated water solution if you want to make long batches in one shot or mix small amounts to use for shorter runs and discarding the left overs in between. 

 

kingkama that is a foolish method that will end up hurting you or others i suggest a mentor or at the minimum several quality books read cover to cover until embedded in your mind.



#34 kingkama

kingkama

    Pyromaniac

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 62 posts

Posted 27 June 2019 - 11:34 PM

This foolish method is already used from pro pyro as I said is not the safest and obviously I don't recommend ones to use it, I tryed because I see making match in this way in a Pyro factory.
Mr snapper I read so many books in so many languages that I can say that I read all the literature on the arguments, if I published this methodology is because I see doing that safely from a 65 yo professional pyrotechnics who made km of match a year and just for made it known from the readers of this forum.
Mumbles is not a slurry but a fully dissolved BP/water mix.

Edited by kingkama, 28 June 2019 - 12:55 PM.


#35 snapper

snapper

    Playing with fire

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 11 posts

Posted 29 June 2019 - 10:49 PM

seeing someone do things that's done them for decades unsafely is no excuse to continue the practice nor share it in a newbie section for others to learn or try for themselves...the only things that make international news regarding fireworks is factory explosions and individuals that make harmful devices and the only thing that comes from that in today's world is idiots who think we need laws to protect us from ourselves or outright banning of items.

      the best example from the past year is the bump stock, it was used in a genocidal attack killing and maiming hundreds, they found the guy had made items at home using things others on here use for fireworks and are now inching to ban them all under the newest scare skeem  "terrorism" and unelected bureaucrats banned the bumpstock outright in under a month by changing wording in their code enforcement book. no congress writing a law, no voting by the people and that is even more scary than the ban itself. banning any or all of these items will never stop people from committing heinous acts yet robs everyone of freedoms and  the whole thing should have never happened and it could have never happened if someone stepped up and said something positive to him to change his outlook on life or reported his intended actions.

  the things we say and do everyday have effects on everyone around us including their safety, in another group a fella was asking a lot of questions and making statements about unknown experiments that were mentioned and warned to be likely hazardous, a week later someone posted the local news report, he died doing these experiments burning down the building he was doing them in. It rocked peoples lives knowing they may have been able to curb this creative person away from the decisions he was making. please think twice before doing unsafe practices or sharing them with others even if your only considering those around you or those it may end up effecting unintentionally.



#36 WillowPineAndBoom

WillowPineAndBoom

    Playing with fire

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 13 posts

Posted Yesterday, 02:34 PM

Ned gorski method... i try it i like it and satisfying me a lot.. safe benefit practical method! Thumps up to ned!





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: black match

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users