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How to store finished compositions/stars?


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#41 calebkessinger

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 08:17 AM

Don't you love the shipping that costs more than the products!  :o

Happens all the time. 

That sure is a nice shelf unit. 


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#42 chuckufarley

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 08:49 AM

I do hate high shipping costs, but in a way I also like them. Numerous times they have forced me to look harder, and network with people to find a local source.

Thanks for the compliment Cal

#43 OldMarine

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 01:43 PM

I'd say that unless you are storing whistle or flash in those jars the danger of a threaded lid is miniscule. A long as you protect yourself from a static charge that could transfer to the exterior of the jar it would be fine. I have jars of comps in similar jars and haven't noticed any static cling inside the containers whatsoever.
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#44 chuckufarley

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 01:52 PM

I always get the image of the cans of Goex ffg and fffg that I have when people talk about threaded containers. Metal can, metal lid, full of bp. I guess using that as a gauge I don't worry about plastic threads a whole lot.

That being said, it never hurts to be overly cautious about these things, you just never know.

#45 starxplor

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 10:31 PM

I always get the image of the cans of Goex ffg and fffg that I have when people talk about threaded containers. Metal can, metal lid, full of bp. I guess using that as a gauge I don't worry about plastic threads a whole lot.

That being said, it never hurts to be overly cautious about these things, you just never know.

 

While I do not believe there is such a thing as overly cautious in this hobby, I do have a point to make about the metal cans vs plastic. A metal can is generally not going to build up a static charge on its own unless you attach one to a battery somehow. The plastic bottles can build up this charge, and the sliding of plastic on plastic when screwing a cap is a good chance to do this. Think of rubbing a balloon on your sweatshirt and sticking it to a wall.

 

All that said, just not using them for finished comp is a pretty good way to avoid any issues.



#46 calebkessinger

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 06:13 PM

I love my plastic.  I store everything in them from whistle to stars.  Cleanliness and gentleness go far in pyro.  I think their "might" be an issue with a screw top lid but that issue is probably less than when I beat a shell together that has stars, flash, metals,  fuse,  and who knows what else in it. 


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#47 Sulphurstan

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 01:34 AM

Starxplor

I actually got 100 of them. The cabinets I built hold 48 bottles each. They were less than $1 each with lids, and they are semi local so I could avoid the outrageous shipping costs.

They do not come with lids. The company has a ton of different options for lids, color,plastic type, liner material.... They are screw on lids but I don't plan on using them for mixed compositions, just my raw chems.

Your storage cabinet is just like a fairy tale to me, with my random sized, shaped, material containers!!! Hats off!!
I'm thinking to change all my containers for these kind of HDPE containers, but:
 
My 2 questions are:
- Are they COMPLETELY air tight (moisture tight to be more precise)?
- How do they behave with static electricity?
 
Afraid of moisture (My workshop is pretty damp), I'm currently using this kind of glass container for my chems: SUPER moisture tight, but glass (!): also good for static electricity concerns.
(I do NOT store finished compositions, stars in these glass containers, instead I'm using some kind of hdpe containers, with a very small Calcium Chloride  or Silica Gel container inside)

 

 

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#48 chuckufarley

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 08:27 AM

Thanks Sulfurstan. My shelves looked that way too, that's why I decided to get all the bottles and build the cabinets.

As to your questions. The lids I have are not perfectly air tight. If I screw the lid on tightly, I can (with both hands) squeeze the bottle and push air out. That being said, they offer a wide range of lid seals (not just foam) that may do a better job of keeping them air tight, but also considerably increase the costs. In practical use the foam seals should stop air transfer under normal circumstances.

As far as static goes, I don't notice a whole lot of static issues. I don't have an excess of dust clinging to them or anything. I don't get shocked when I pick them up (even in dry winter conditions). I don't use them for finished comps or stars though so I'm not sure that static is really an issue for raw chems.

#49 Sulphurstan

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Posted 30 December 2016 - 02:05 PM

Thanks Sulfurstan. My shelves looked that way too, that's why I decided to get all the bottles and build the cabinets.
As to your questions. The lids I have are not perfectly air tight. If I screw the lid on tightly, I can (with both hands) squeeze the bottle and push air out. That being said, they offer a wide range of lid seals (not just foam) that may do a better job of keeping them air tight, but also considerably increase the costs. In practical use the foam seals should stop air transfer under normal circumstances.
As far as static goes, I don't notice a whole lot of static issues. I don't have an excess of dust clinging to them or anything. I don't get shocked when I pick them up (even in dry winter conditions). I don't use them for finished comps or stars though so I'm not sure that static is really an issue for raw chems.

Yep, for raw chem, it is probably not an issue, but I was thinking of taking the raw chem plastic containers, "charging myself up a little bit", then take the next container, charging up again and so on, and then - once all mixed- , put it into my sieve, touch whatever I should not with it, and wuuuuush... To avoid this, i always touch a grounded part of my workbench before sieving...Going to the paranoid side sometimes :-)

#50 Seymour

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 01:49 AM

Who else has wild animals getting in and opening/breaking containers?

 

Wild cats, Possums and Rats. Maybe the odd stoat.

Sigh.



#51 Boophoenix

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 12:51 PM

Don't shoot me because I'm not the safety Nazi but two things I didn't notice in this thread that I am aware of and think I am correct on.

I think the powers that be prefer fuels and oxidizers stored in a way that should a fire happen they can't easily commingle. I do believe just a set distance that this shouldn't be able to happen is acceptable. I like that idea myself and try to practice it. I actually keep my metal fuels in a whole different structure in my new setup. It's still a work in progress organizing, but I'm getting there.

I saw the question of storing crackle. I seem to recall a story about having a double based nitrocellulose crackle separate the nitro glycerin out of the crackle during an extended storage. I can inquire about this if anyone wants further details. I believe they attributed part of the problem to the size of the batch and it might not be of such concern to us, but seems to me it might be worth thinking about a little. I've never tried the NC bound crackle so it's not been an issue for me.

#52 Seymour

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 05:33 PM

Any idea of the scale, or timeframe?

 

5-10kg?

 

less than 5 years? more than 10?

Was it actually a problem? my problem with all forms of nitro are not when they leach nitroglycerine, but when you get decomposition.

 

I've found too many containers with nitric acid condensing on the walls or worse yet, filled with nitrogen dioxide. All of these have been taken away instantly and carefully burned to destroy them safely. I'm mostly talking NC. Double base tends to be much more stable in the "long shelf life" way, not due to the NG, but due to stabilising additives.



#53 Boophoenix

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 05:38 PM

I don't recall the specifics, but I'll inquire and see if I can enough details to share or see if they will share the details themselves so questions could easily be posed about it.

#54 OldMarine

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 07:50 PM

If your crackle is sitting for more than a few months you're not having enough fun!


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#55 ivars21

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 01:40 PM

Currently converting a garage to a pyro workshop. If anyone else would like to share some pics of their setup, it would help to get some ideas.



#56 OldMarine

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 06:55 PM

Got me some plastic ammo cans cheap today at TSC. Also got a very large Plano dry box (3x2x2) at a great price. I still like my metal cans but these seem pretty durable and lightweight.


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#57 chuckufarley

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 07:10 PM

I think any thing like your ammo cans (plastic or metal), buckets with lids, dry boxes...etc. Are a good idea. Even if they won't hold up to prolonged heat exposure, a sealed container should still prevent stored comps from an errant spark or flash fire. If I had a star go off unexpectedly Id rather have it bounce off even a deli container then a ziplock baggy.

#58 lloyd

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 11:14 AM

Boo wrote: "I saw the question of storing crackle. I seem to recall a story about having a double based nitrocellulose crackle separate the nitro glycerin out of the crackle during an extended storage."

---

And Seymore asked:

Any idea of the scale, or timeframe?

5-10kg?

less than 5 years? more than 10?
Was it actually a problem? my problem with all forms of nitro are not when they leach nitroglycerine, but when you get decomposition.

 

-----------------

Not in any particular order --

It was a 7.5Kg batch of bismuth crackle with the NC lacquer (double-based), acetone, et. al. already mixed, ready for granulation.

 

For reasons I don't understand (perhaps encroaching weather), the tech put the material in a loosely-covered plastic bucket, and put it under a workbench -- then completely forgot it.  It sat - best as I can determine - for about 1-1/2 years, with the acetone evaporating, and the mass shrinking in the bottom of the bucket.

 

As one of the safety directors of the company (I was GM, but all senior management were 'safety directors'), I noticed a number of containers under a bench that had old dates on them.  I asked a tech to carry them to the porch, where I could examine them.

 

When I uncovered that one in question, I saw a solid, shrunken, and 'dished' mass of dried crackle comp on the bottom with a small puddle (maybe 1/2 fl.oz. -- 10 cc) of yellowish, oily liquid in the middle of the 'dish'.

 

I gently touched it, and smelled it.  I knew what it was, and had no use for tasting it, because I knew the terrible BOOMING headache I'd have gotten, had I actually touched it to my tongue!

 

My only surmise is that the mechanical action of shrinkage had actually expressed the NG from its 'solid solution' with the nitrocellulose.

 

We disposed of the mass and the liquid safely.

 

I do NOT think this is the sort of thing that would ordinarily happen to an amateur.  He/she is unlikely to completely forget a bucket-full of comp ready-for-processing, and which cost several hundred dollars to make.  But I guess it could happen.

 

We've stored finished DRIED crackle granules for many years without degradation, and all the crackle we made was with double-base powder.

 

LLoyd


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