Paper Fast Fuse (Black Match)

[rbpwrd240]

I realize this stuff is as hard to get as a Unicorn fart anyone know where I can get some I just ordered the quick match kit from Pyrocreations but it was not the paper fuse it was advertised with. Instead I got the yellow fast fuse.

 

Any help is greatly appreciated.

[AzoMittle]

Could you link to the product you're looking for and what you got instead?

[OldMarine]

I've been hunting for the paper fuse for months and finally gave up and bought a BM machine.

[rbpwrd240]

Sure,

 

Here is the product I purchased.

http://www.pyrocreations.com/inc/sdetail/523/168158

 

Instead of getting what they advertised I got a bunch of 36" long tubes (not a continuous roll) and instead of the proper fast fuse that is covered with paper over black match strands like this. (Scroll down and it says how you can remove the paper and retrieve black match)

http://www.skylighter.com/fireworks/how-to/Attach-Electric-Matches-to-Visco-Fuse.asp

 

I received a yellow fuse which I think is this one.

http://www.pyrocreations.com/inc/sdetail/523/311290

 

Now the yellow fuse burns more then twice as slow as the fastest proper paper covered fuse. (.4 sec a foot to 1 second a foot) I had to use 5 pieces of the yellow fuse to get the same result as two pieces of the proper fuse would have done. In the end I got 60ft of tubing and about 12 feet of proper fuse. (once you run 5 strands) I ordered two kits as I needed a lot of quick match and now I have 24 feet of usable quick match and an extra 96 feet of tubing. Guess I could always order 250ft of the yellow fuse and spend another 30 bucks plus shipping but Id much rather just spend my money getting what I actually want/need.

 

To make matters worse I also ordered from mortartubes.net because they claimed to have the product in stock. Then I received a back order email with shipping expected at the end of October. Luckily I ordered through Paypal and I was able to get my money back. It was easy to make the decision to get my money back once I saw all the trouble they had caused in the past.

 

Thanks forum,

 

Now if anyone has say 20-60ft they can spare PLEASE LET ME KNOW!!!! Yes I am screaming, and desperate....

Edited July 15, 2016 by rbpwrd240

[patsroom]

I beleive in BM for making my own quick match. The hardest part is making the blackmatch, but if you want it when you want it, then there you go. And the truth is, it is not that hard to make. It is cheap and reliable as well as satisfying to make. To make the 1/4 inch paper tube you can recycle old newspaper to make the tube, when the BM is dry run one strand in for the length of the tube...................Pat

[patsroom]

I just watch the video at http://fi.b5z.net/i/u/2001189/i/logo.png and quest what! I would not even call that quick match! My 15 foot section is gone when I light my little water fall and it is all buning at the same time not like that slow, I mean slow stuff they are trying to sell you. Go buy some 3FFF black powder,cotton string, newspaper and alittle corn starch. make a BM machine of your choice and run about 200 or 300 hundred feet of it. Hang it to dry. Prep the corn starch in the oven while you roll the paper tubes. Then make a couple hundred feet of some good stuff. By the way you still have material left over to make more................Pat

[rbpwrd240]

I hear you guys, honestly I do.

 

I plan on making BP and black match but currently I'm already making racks, planning a show, doing two frame off restorations and working full time. I'm also a dad so I honestly don't have the time to learn a new talent right now. Again I plan to but currently if I take on another project the woman might kill me.

 

 

Tonight at 9, a local San Antonio man was strangled to death by his wife with cotton string intended to make explosives, found out why at 9 o clock....

 

Also I agree what they made was very poor quick match, however I intended to use the proper 5 strand mix which would greatly increase the speed. On another note where can I locally source the 3FFF black powder? Gun store?

Edited July 15, 2016 by rbpwrd240

[patsroom]

Gun stores that sell black powder guns and supplies are a good place to check. But be sure to ask for real black powder. It is sold in one pound cans. Shipping is out of the question because of hazmat fees. I use a old pill bottle for my ?machine? and apiece of wire with a loop in the end, the lid holds the wire in place. Holes thru the lid for in and out of the string, makes short run of 30 to 40 ft. at a time.

Edited July 15, 2016 by patsroom

[rbpwrd240]

Iv seen really good devices made up out of jars or funnels when I was researching making it but when the little lady got wind of my plan she was kind enough to point out my other 365,322 plans I already have in action....

 

So not to her knowledge but basically a little Dextrin or CMC,some black powder and I have the correct mixture to make black match correct?

 

Can anyone give me some definite percentages for a strong mixture that will take a bend well? See I did research it.

[OldMarine]

My last batch had 2% dextrin and 1% CMC and came out very nice and flexible.

[Merlin]

My last batch had 2% dextrin and 1% CMC and came out very nice and flexible.

What is CMC?

Edited July 15, 2016 by Merlin

[Merlin]

What is CMC?

I hear you guys, honestly I do.

 

I plan on making BP and black match but currently I'm already making racks, planning a show, doing two frame off restorations and working full time. I'm also a dad so I honestly don't have the time to learn a new talent right now. Again I plan to but currently if I take on another project the woman might kill me.

 

 

Tonight at 9, a local San Antonio man was strangled to death by his wife with cotton string intended to make explosives, found out why at 9 o clock....

 

Also I agree what they made was very poor quick match, however I intended to use the proper 5 strand mix which would greatly increase the speed. On another note where can I locally source the 3FFF black powder? Gun store?

 

Also I agree what they made was very poor quick match, however I intended to use the proper 5 strand mix which would greatly increase the speed. On another note where can I locally source the 3FFF black powder? Gun store?

You can mix and match up to 50 lbs at Graf and Sons. Google it. There is a hazmat fee. Or you could spend the afternoon shaving bark and splitting cedar and processing in a retort like me- but then I am retired and my wife likes fireworks. Edited July 15, 2016 by Merlin

[OldMarine]

CMC is carboxymethylcellulose. It's an ingredient in wallpaper paste that helps keep your BP solids in suspension so you needn't stir your slurry while coating your string. It also adds flexibility without slowing the burn rate too much.

CMC is also used in fondant icing for cakes and though those small packages seem expensive they'll do miles of BM.

Edited July 15, 2016 by OldMarine

[rbpwrd240]

What wall paper paste yall using to get the CMC from?

 

I also think I remember seeing it used in a an anti moisture or moisture absorber of some sort.

Edited July 15, 2016 by rbpwrd240

[rbpwrd240]

What is CMC?

You can mix and match up to 50 lbs at Graf and Sons. Google it. There is a hazmat fee. Or you could spend the afternoon shaving bark and splitting cedar and processing in a retort like me- but then I am retired and my wife likes fireworks.

 

 

So jealous I hope one day I can do that. Honestly the little lady loves the fireworks but hates my never ending desire to push the limits. So for her hearts sake I promised I wouldn't make fireworks till next year after lots of learning could be done. However, I never said anything about BP and Quick Match. Im gunna get divorced....

[Merlin]

CMC is carboxymethylcellulose. It's an ingredient in wallpaper paste that helps keep your BP solids in suspension so you needn't stir your slurry while coating your string. It also adds flexibility without slowing the burn rate too much.

CMC is also used in fondant icing for cakes and though those small packages seem expensive they'll do miles of BM.

Thanks. Just got a pound from Amazon. Last time I tried to make black match I don't think it integrated the string and I only had dextrin so it dried brittle. Hoping the CMC will give a bit of flexibility.

[patsroom]

Sorry I quess I'm not done beating on a dead horse yet. Whoa, I am sorry I think this horse is still kicking alittle.Please look at the little download. The pill bottle is one of those 1 inch or so dia by about 3 inch tall kind, not very big at all. It works for small quantity 30 ft or so................Pat

 

BM.bmp

[rbpwrd240]

That works for sure. I like this idea though.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkQP_Bo9DYg

Edited July 15, 2016 by rbpwrd240

[AzoMittle]

Can anyone give me some definite percentages for a strong mixture that will take a bend well? See I did research it.

Thank you, thank you, thank you..... some of these recent posts are driving me crazy as bat shi- er um guano. I'm happy to help those who help themselves

 

CMC is commonly referenced as wallpaper paste but (in the US at least) it is more of 'ye olde wallpaper paste'. What you'll find at HD or Lowes or what have you is likely to be a vinyl wallpaper paste or some sort of polymeric glue. Your best bet is the internet, Amazon has it for $8-10 per pound: https://smile.amazon.com/Carboxy-Methyl-Cellulose-Pack-Grade/dp/B00SI5BZXK/ref=sr_1_3_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1468557671&sr=8-3&keywords=cmc+1+pound. Professional book binders use all sorts of crazy different glues, lots of variations of wheat paste and CMC but that's a whole other thread worth of info; very nice folks to boot if you ever get the chance to sit down with one.

 

You'll want to use good ol' 75:15:10 black powder for the black match, 2% CMC is a good starting point, gum arabic also works well. There are perchlorate based blackmatch/quickmatch out there but I don't have a formula for it (if anyone does please share!) and I have heard lots of grumbling about it not working right out on the firing line (not sure what that's supposed to mean though).

 

You can also make it a little more reliable (no, I unfortunately do not have data to back that claim up) by soaking the string in a pot of boiling water saturated with potassium nitrate, and then coating with BP (I'm dubious of this method but KN is cheap enough). The reasoning goes that if you don't presaturate the thread the nitrate in the BP slurry will want to leach out of the solution and into the thread such that the first portion of fuse will have much KN and the last portions of fuse will have almost no KN, presoaking you put it into balance ahead of time. Other tips I've seen are to use unbleached single strand cotton or hemp string, to massage the slurry into the string, to double coat it, or to single coat single strand then twist into five strand and then coat again.

 

In regards to having eighteen bazillion projects going at once this is one of those projects that works well to set aside a block of time (say half a day) and make enough to have for future use, instead of trying to make 6 feet 10 times a year, make 60 feet once a year.

 

For the black powder, I think you might be confused a bit, think of it like steel wool. The usual notation is you start by selecting either sporting grade (g) or blasting grade (a), pyro uses almost only g a*; then you specify the mesh or grade size with a number of 'F's (f for fine) so triple fine sporting grade would be FFFg; this gets a little hard to read the finer you get so the community came up with a short hand of replacing the F's with numbers, so triple fine sporting grade could be written 3Fg or deca fine blasting grade would 10Fa. Skylighter has a good table for this: http://www.skylighter.com/fireworks/help/Black_Powder_Size_Charts.asp

* "Fireworks manufacturers prefer the "A" series black powder to be used in fireworks. But you are required to have an ATF license to buy that type black powder legally. However you don't need an ATF license to purchase up to 50 lbs. of sporting grade (G) black powders, which are chemically identical.

 

Since the composition of the two types of black powders is identical, you can, in fact, substitute G black powder for A black powder in your fireworks. But you need to understand that the black powder manufacturers created completely different grading/numbering schemes for each type of black powder (i.e. sporting vs. blasting powder). Hence, 2FG black powder is not the same size as 2FA." -Skylighter

 

If you are making your fuse go ahead and make your own 3Fg too, or vice versa, it is the same composition (BP + a bit of binder) for both.

 

Sorry I quess I'm not done beating on a dead horse yet. Whoa, I am sorry I think this horse is still kicking alittle.Please look at the little download. The pill bottle is one of those 1 inch or so dia by about 3 inch tall kind, not very big at all. It works for small quantity 30 ft or so................Pat

 

I'm digging that setup.

 

 

My last batch had 2% dextrin and 1% CMC and came out very nice and flexible.

How did you end up deciding on using a blend of binders? What's the advantage?

Edited July 15, 2016 by AzoMittle

[rbpwrd240]

So am I to understand the 3Fg,CMC and Dextrin wont make a quality Black Match?

[OldMarine]

I didn't come up with the quantity of CMC to be used. It was suggested by others using Caleb's blackmatch machine and I tried and liked it. The dextrin I did experiment with. I started with 5% and worked my way down until I started getting bad adhesion and cracking then bumped it back up a bit. I mill the dextrin in with my powder and then after measuring out the amount needed for match I screen in the CMC before making my slurry. The CMC isn't necessary if only using a cup or funnel sized container since you can swirl the slurry easily enough.

[dagabu]

Just get some powder food thickener, if it says carboxymethylcellulose or CMC in the ingredients, you are good to go!

 

Danny Cregan has a great web page for the film canister black match method:

http://www.wichitabuggywhip.com/fireworks/blackmatch.html

[rbpwrd240]

My last batch had 2% dextrin and 1% CMC and came out very nice and flexible.

Okay I got CMC and Dextrin coming in. Im going to use the percentages mentioned above. Iv heard of this recipe before and I always seem to hear good things with it. Now am I good to just go get 3Fg BP at the local gun store? I don't really want to mess with making BP right now.

 

Thanks all,

[AzoMittle]

As others have mentioned most reloading powders from your LGS are smokeless powder/double-base powder. Make sure to specifically ask for black powder. If you get 3Fg you will need to turn it into a powder somehow (ball mills are great for this), if they carry black powder see if you can get Meal D (it is a fine powder to begin with).

[dagabu]

The grain size doesn't matter at all, it has to become part of the slurry, the smaller the grain, the better for dusting the BM after its pulled though.

 

No worries about turning it to sludge though, just add boiling water and allow it to return to a slurry, it will take some time so don't get too worried. Take AZO's word, be careful when buying BP, I cant find it locally here, only the substitute crap...

Edited July 15, 2016 by dagabu