bigbuck Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 (edited) i have made pretty good black powder in the past but i recently see people dissolving red gum in alachol to bind it for granulating i have always used 2%dextrin in my bp for granulating mixed in while ball milling and bound with alachol, is this incorrect or does it make that big of a difference?? please correct me it 2%dextrin bound with alachol is wrong for granulating Edited July 9, 2016 by bigbuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 (edited) Dextrin is corn starch that has been converted either chemically or by heat. It gets sticky when it gets wet. Red gum is a plant resin, a pitch of sorts and is insoluble in water, it needs alcohol to make it gummy. You cannot use water in red gum or alcohol with dextrin. Also, consider the role that water plays in making black powder. (Use really hot, boiling water even to make your ball of BP. Its endothermic so it pulls the heat away from the water so by the time its mixed in, the comp is warm to the touch.) Water dissolves some of the KNO3 and it becomes more of a homogeneous mixture with all of the components in close contact with each other. Edited July 9, 2016 by dagabu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbuck Posted July 9, 2016 Author Share Posted July 9, 2016 (edited) can you do it with just plain ole hot water then? or please explain the proper way, are bp coated rice hulls done the same way? Edited July 9, 2016 by bigbuck 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldMarine Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 (edited) I use Mike Swisher's method for making polverone and he specifies boiling water. I tried it with just hot tapwater and it didn't burn as well. It doesn't take much boiling water so a small stockpot will be plenty large enough.I just go ahead and use boiling water for all of my powder since I have a gas fryer with a stockpot so I can boil water quickly out in the yard. EDIT: Let me add that the polverone is unmilled and the fines from it are more powerful than my Skylighter red gum crap! Edited July 9, 2016 by OldMarine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbuck Posted July 9, 2016 Author Share Posted July 9, 2016 how would you achieve that in a star roller for coating rice hulls?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Weigh out 1 part rice hulls and 7 parts milled BP (1:4 is also good for larger shells). I boil my rice hulls for 15 minutes, put them in an old pillow case and spin it around in circles to drive off all the excess water. Throw the rice hulls in a 5 gallon bucket, add 1/4 of the powder and mix it up until AL the BP is stuck to the hulls. Add another 1/4 an repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbuck Posted July 10, 2016 Author Share Posted July 10, 2016 ok so do i really need a binder for granulating? or just use really hot water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMat Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 (edited) I don't use any binder in my BP. I just wet the mill dust with 80/20 water/alcohol just until it is no longer dusty (The actual amount is between 10-12%, I have done it so many times I don't need to actually measure, but can tell by the consistency of the BP.) I then press the mixture into pucks, let it semi-dry, corn it and dry it the rest of the way. My grains are nice and hard without any binder. As I've said in previous posts, if I make the mistake of letting the pucks dry completely, they are HARD. You can tap the dried pucks together and it sounds like your clinking porcelain together. Actually, when doing this method, I believe its called corning instead of granulating. Either way, my BP's performance is great and consistent from batch to batch. By the way, I don't use hot water. As far as I know, hot water is used in the precipitation method and not really anything else. But hey, if it works for other people, I'm not going to argue. Edited July 10, 2016 by MadMat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbuck Posted July 10, 2016 Author Share Posted July 10, 2016 awsome thank you for the info!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 ok so do i really need a binder for granulating? or just use really hot water MadMat is making pressed pucks and corning them, you are making pulverone, YES you need a binder. I don't use any binder in my BP. I just wet the mill dust with 80/20 water/alcohol just until it is no longer dusty (The actual amount is between 10-12%, I have done it so many times I don't need to actually measure, but can tell by the consistency of the BP.) I then press the mixture into pucks, let it semi-dry, corn it and dry it the rest of the way. My grains are nice and hard without any binder. As I've said in previous posts, if I make the mistake of letting the pucks dry completely, they are HARD. You can tap the dried pucks together and it sounds like your clinking porcelain together. Actually, when doing this method, I believe its called corning instead of granulating. Either way, my BP's performance is great and consistent from batch to batch. By the way, I don't use hot water. As far as I know, hot water is used in the precipitation method and not really anything else. But hey, if it works for other people, I'm not going to argue. The OP asked for a simple granulated BP, not pucked and corned. Different beast here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbuck Posted July 11, 2016 Author Share Posted July 11, 2016 2% dextrin added for making pulverone??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 1-3% is normal depending on its use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbuck Posted July 13, 2016 Author Share Posted July 13, 2016 how long should it be ball milled for? im using 1" ss ball bearings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Sorry, i use lead, copper and Zirc-M, no experience with SST in BP... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbuck Posted July 13, 2016 Author Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) how long if using lead? just to kind of get an idea Edited July 13, 2016 by bigbuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 If your mill is running efficiently, 4 hours will be plenty. If your mill is not tuned so well it can take longer. 24 hours is about the longest that anyone mills from what comments on forums tell me. Most people, I think, mill 4-6 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyronoob Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Weigh out 1 part rice hulls and 7 parts milled BP (1:4 is also good for larger shells). I boil my rice hulls for 15 minutes, put them in an old pillow case and spin it around in circles to drive off all the excess water. Throw the rice hulls in a 5 gallon bucket, add 1/4 of the powder and mix it up until AL the BP is stuck to the hulls. Add another 1/4 an repeat.Dag....what do you use to mix the rice hull/bp mill dust with....do you just shake it or is the bucket a DIY star roller type?? I don't have the mixer or a diy set up yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Dag....what do you use to mix the rice hull/bp mill dust with....do you just shake it or is the bucket a DIY star roller type?? I don't have the mixer or a diy set up yet. Simplicity at its finest! We use a flexible feed bucket, about 10 gallons in size. Ball mill the BP for 2 hours with 2% dex, 7:1. Whet the rice hulls with boiling water until they all sink, drain off all the standing water, dump them into a pillow case, spin it around and around until no water comes off them, dump them into the bucket, add 1/4 of the dust, mix by hand and repeat until all the dust is mixed in. Pour out onto kraft onto drying racks and dry for four hours, turn them and let dry for four days. Test random piles for dryness. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparx88 Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 I use a stainless salad bowl and toss it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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