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Zips/Speedballs/Zippers


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#21 FlaMtnBkr

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Posted 16 June 2016 - 08:27 AM

It probably burned the paper so there was a bit of a downward vector to the exiting gases. With a little down force it's light enough that it should be able to climb fairly well.

If you used an angled rammer for the clay and drilled an angled vent thru the side wall of the clay so the hole doesn't erode too quick, you could probably make them take off every time.

#22 dagabu

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Posted 16 June 2016 - 06:37 PM

I finished my drilling jig today, tangential hole but no angle, both the vent and nozzle are .33" (aprox) and the fuel chamber is 1" x 3" approximately.

I'll be heading off to my build site in the morning and will press one with hot BP for testing.
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#23 lloyd

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Posted 17 June 2016 - 08:03 AM

In reply to "tangential" or "radial".  They work either way.  And they spin like a ground-bloom before lifting, either way.

 

They tend to "sing" better if the hole is tangential.

 

Gyroscopic precession! <G>

 

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#24 FlaMtnBkr

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Posted 18 June 2016 - 02:05 PM

Ahh yes, that's it. I remember a lot but not quite everything. Now if I just new what it actually meant.

#25 OldMarine

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Posted 18 June 2016 - 02:26 PM

Attached File  tangentialvradial.png   7.34KB   1 downloadsquick sketch:

 


Come on! Name one other hobby in which you cheer as your money and hard work go up in smoke!

#26 FlaMtnBkr

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Posted 18 June 2016 - 05:22 PM

If that was for my benefit, I got that down. Thank you. It's the "gyroscopic precession" I can't fully picture.

#27 lloyd

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Posted 18 June 2016 - 05:31 PM

I posted this elsewhere.  It's an explanation I got from an older engineer back (way back) when I was 22, and it explained precession in a way that finally made sense:

0---------0

Precession can be hard to explain in terms of a spinning wheel.  It's hard to imagine how putting a force on a wheel can have its effect 90-degrees further along the rotation.

 

But it's EASY to understand if you look at it in terms of orbital mechanics.  Just imagine a SINGLE particle in orbit around a point.  Now, apply a force at any point along its flight that is perpendicular to the orbit and parallel to the old axis of rotation.  You'll immediately see the particle's vector change;  it doesn't move away from the applied force at the point where that force was applied, but changes it's path away from that point.  The plane of rotation changes in a way that makes it seem to 'pivot' about the point where the force was applied.

 

If that isn't too clear initially, imagine a billiard ball rolling slowly down the table from end to end.  A ball is shot across the table such that it hits the first one right as it passes the side pockets.   Now... ask yourself... does the first ball continue in a straight line perfectly parallel to its original track, or does it now 'angle away' from the original track?  And... of course, the answer is it 'angles away'.    The same thing happens in orbital mechanics, but "in the round".

 

A gyroscope is just a large mass of particles orbiting together.

 

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#28 JohnFRoss

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Posted 18 June 2016 - 06:00 PM

I have seen similar items with a small report at the end, how is that accomplished? 

 

I did it by using a tube length that was longer than standard for the spindle I was using. Drill the tangential hole 1/2 tube ID above the tip of the spindle. 

 

Press your rocket with your chosen fuel up to the tip of the spindle.   Then switch to a slower "delay comp" above the spindle for 1 1/2 tube I.D., so there is twice as much delay comp above the fuse as compared to between the fuse and spindle tip.  

 

Now press a clay bulkhead with a hole in it, either with a tool from Caleb or drill a hole by hand.  Now put in your choice of loose report comp in the remaining space and glue an end disc on the top of the tube.

 

Make sure you light this device in an area where there are no things you would mind damaging within range, particularly in the larger sizes...


Edited by JohnFRoss, 18 June 2016 - 06:05 PM.


#29 dagabu

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 08:33 PM

 

I did it by using a tube length that was longer than standard for the spindle I was using. Drill the tangential hole 1/2 tube ID above the tip of the spindle. 

 

Press your rocket with your chosen fuel up to the tip of the spindle.   Then switch to a slower "delay comp" above the spindle for 1 1/2 tube I.D., so there is twice as much delay comp above the fuse as compared to between the fuse and spindle tip.  

 

Now press a clay bulkhead with a hole in it, either with a tool from Caleb or drill a hole by hand.  Now put in your choice of loose report comp in the remaining space and glue an end disc on the top of the tube.

 

Make sure you light this device in an area where there are no things you would mind damaging within range, particularly in the larger sizes...

 

Outstanding!  Thanks john, that is much as I envisioned it to work like but I am thrilled that you have made them work!  So much testing I don't have to do now.   :D


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#30 dagabu

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Posted 30 July 2016 - 10:15 AM

I made some very large Zipps this week with a few different hole locations and nozzle sizes.  These will get fired at PGI this next weekend and I will take all the video I can.  Here are some pictures of the finished ones. 

 

gallery_9798_35_265460.jpg


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#31 pyrojig

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Posted 30 July 2016 - 02:22 PM

I have seen these devices with a small load of slow flash and stars . The effect is like a cheap insert from a cake, but a working burst at the apex of flight. I was most impressed that they got these 1" x3" devices to fly vertical with a heavy payload off setting the balance of the device. It was constructed as john describes but with 1/8" stars in the loose flash/burst. 

 

I have put together  a jig for these in the 1/2 and 3/8 sizes, but they dont have a report.//// not at least yet. They are a very rewarding effect for min. materials and tooling . + kids go absolutely nuts when they see them being shot. Love the neighborhood dogs howling after the zip of these devices. ( dont have updated pics of the new tooling but some of the 1st ones I started with )

 

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Edited by pyrojig, 30 July 2016 - 02:37 PM.


#32 lloyd

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Posted 30 July 2016 - 03:00 PM

The 'secret' to the report is to press the charge with a 'header' portion of powder above the core, and below the top of the tube by whatever distance you deem necessary to put in some flash and a top seal (probably of hot glue, or an invert cap, white glue, and THEN a dose of hot-melt, if you're delicate about letting hot-melt touch flash).

 

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#33 pyrojig

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Posted 30 July 2016 - 10:31 PM

I want to re-create the cool effect of a star burst . It seems necessary to get a tight packing so the stars/load doesn't shift. I love the fact that hot glue is way under temp to be of danger for flash . It seems like it was meant for pyro use. lol



#34 schroedinger

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Posted 31 July 2016 - 04:10 AM

The 'secret' to the report is to press the charge with a 'header' portion of powder above the core, and below the top of the tube by whatever distance you deem necessary to put in some flash and a top seal (probably of hot glue, or an invert cap, white glue, and THEN a dose of hot-melt, if you're delicate about letting hot-melt touch flash).
 
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Just fill the last void and cover with Al tape.

#35 mondalfiona

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 07:11 AM

If anyone is interested in making these I have a Tutorial I could dig out.

 

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=utqnO1DBFyk

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=7mikXso4T_g

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=N38GI7Bm3f0

I wish to learn this process of making.


Edited by mondalfiona, 04 December 2017 - 07:12 AM.


#36 dagabu

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 08:11 PM

Only 16 months late but here is the video of my zips. 


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#37 Mixer

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 06:46 AM

They only work and sound as intended if they are kept small. A good effort though :)

 

For those interested, the article is in `Member Tutorials`


Edited by Mixer, 07 December 2017 - 06:49 AM.


#38 calebkessinger

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:37 PM

That was a nice one..  Whistle would liven it right up!   :) 

The big ones can put the hurt on ya if you get hit with one.  :)


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#39 Sondre

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 06:17 PM

These looks fun defintley something i need to try. Do i need the tool to drill the side ? or does it just make the job 10 times easier.



#40 Mixer

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 02:38 AM

These looks fun defintley something i need to try. Do i need the tool to drill the side ? or does it just make the job 10 times easier.

A tool is very useful if you are making a lot of them. I made mine from a piece of aluminum angle.


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