34 replies to this topic

[OldMarine]

Thanks for explaining and laughing. Both are good things.
Especially since you've figured by now that I am The Inquisitor!

Edited by OldMarine, 04 June 2016 - 06:07 PM.

[OldMarine]

[Bbqjoe]

Hi Gang. I'm a somewhat experienced noob.

I don't necessarily follow convention in everything I do, but I usually follow principles.

I've been making varied canisters using prefab #4 tubes with good success.

 

My other shell I'm making rather unconventionally, but successfully using reinforced packing tape, cardboard, hot glue, and in some applications a little earth. The shell comes out at 2"diameter and 2.8" tall, and they usually weigh about 100 to 130 grams.

I've had great luck using tiger tail stars with various burst charges, or just use them as a hefty salute.

 

I've been experimenting using #2 tubes as inserts with varying internal components.

 

I can fit 5 of them in one of my cases, leaving a fillable core that a 5/16 x1/2 spolette tube fits in perfectly.

 

My issue is that of my break for these inserts.

 

I either get a wimpy break, and the inserts pretty much just fall and ignite, or the burst sets off or destroys the inserts.

 

I recently read in Fulcanelli using 70/30 mixed with sawdust at either a 3:1 or 4:1 ratio.

 

Has anyone here tried this method for a canister shell break?

 

(sorry if I'm kinda hijacking this thread, while at least staying on topic, but apparently I can't posy my own thread yet, only replies)

[Richtee]

You may now post your own thread.

 

Tried the BP coated rice hulls? I know..it’s a PITA, but they fall between a BP break and a flash break. Slow (nitrate) flash might also be an option.

 

Never head of the sawdust thing. Might be worth a shot... heh...

 

BBQ Joe eh? we could prolly trade some stories

[Bbqjoe]

You may now post your own thread.

 

Tried the BP coated rice hulls? I know..it’s a PITA, but they fall between a BP break and a flash break. Slow (nitrate) flash might also be an option.

 

Never head of the sawdust thing. Might be worth a shot... heh...

 

BBQ Joe eh? we could prolly trade some stories

We probably could. I owned a bbq joint for almost 10 years.

Maybe sometime I could tell you the story about the guy from Texas who’d never seen a smoke ring before.

He thought his smoked brisket was raw on the outside.

 

I haven’t tried the rice hulls yet, but I’ve tried my lift powder, 70/30, mill dust, pulverone, fine bp, and an potassium nitrate burst/flash that I can’t locate the source of again, but it was 50/30/20 kno3, charcoal, sulfur.

I’ve also tried many combinations of the above, getting real close, but still missing the mark. 
 

I might just try the 70/30 sawdust tonight and see. 

 

[Richtee]

 

Maybe sometime I could tell you the story about the guy from Texas who’d never seen a smoke ring before.

He thought his smoked brisket was raw on the outside.

 

Well, because they use mesquite and it looks more like treated lumber.

 

Interested in the sawdust thingie. Use mesquite..only thing I can think of it’d be good for besides railroad ties.

Edited by Richtee, 25 July 2023 - 06:54 PM.

[Bbqjoe]

Well, because they use mesquite and it looks more like treated lumber.

 

Interested in the sawdust thingie. Use mesquite..only thing I can think of it’d be good for besides railroad ties.

Be careful here........

I love hickory, but always use mesquite for brisket. There's an art to it like anything else.

 

I'm pretty sure this guy was used to eating at some place probably called something like Bubba's famous boiled BBQ.

 

I have two three shots prepared for tonights test:

 

#1. (5) tiger tail and 70/30 stuffed #2 inserts with a 2 second spolette base in each, primed with NC and fine bp, on a bed of pulverone, with the 3:1 70/30 sawdust break loosely packed in the middle and maybe a bit around the inserts. 

 

#2. Pretty much the same as above except the center burst is lightly dusted lift with 70/30. No sawdust.

 

#3. (4) #2 salutes prepared the same as above using the sawdust burst.

 

I almost always document my experiments with written descriptions and video.

 

I'll try to post them if anyone is interested.

 

What's the best way to post video on this forum?

Is there a way to do it without making folks download the thing?

 

Thanks!

[Richtee]

Pretty sure one has to upload a file.. like.. https://www.amateurp...ts-see-your-bp/

 

Unless it’s YT thing... 

Edited by Richtee, 25 July 2023 - 07:31 PM.

[cmjlab]

Using YouTube and posting a link works well

[cmjlab]

As for Fulcanelli and 70/30 mixed with saw dust - I've never read that in the copy I own. I've seen mention of using saw dust to pack a bottom shot in (i.e. construct a hand made 3" bottom shot, then pack it into a 4" or greater shell with sawdust, to reduce the cost to manufacture multi break shells commercially), and I've seen Shimizu and/or Hardt describe road flares with saw dust as a filler for a strontium nitrate based flare comp.

[cmjlab]

If you have crappy breaks - it is likely due to a lack of containment (accomplished by spiking on traditional cylinder shells & pasted paper layers on ball shells).

If your inserts don't light - that could be several issues, but assuming construction is adequate, the two most common issues are:
1. Using flash to break a shell with inserts, does not pass enough fire to ignite the insert fuses / stars (unless stars are B.P. based or specifically designed for hard breaks).
2. Not enough containment to allow heat & pressure build up before the shell breaks open, which provides enough time for fire to fully ignite the stars or inserts prior to the shell breaking open.

Less common ignition issues (again assuming priming, construction, formulas are good) include: priming not adequate to catch fire and ignite stars/inserts, prime not hot enough to ignite the layer below the prime (especially seen with high metal content and KCL04 compositions), stars / inserts still wet or picked up moisture from air...... The list goes on.

Not to criticize - my suggestion would be to begin with traditional construction of 3" shells (you said you read fulcanelli), using easy to make / inexpensive / easy to ignite B.P. based stars. Once you master the basics, or at least get a good handle on it, then try your less than traditional methods.

If not wanting to build the traditional way, try ball shells or premade cannisters, as those reduce learning curve / time spent on construction, but you should still use traditional B.P. based stars and burst, as those help guarantee good results early on, instead of failures that lead some to quit or give up trying.

For shell breaks (3" ball or cylinder): use granulated B.P. to break your shells. Off the breaks aren't spectacular, or suit your needs, then determine if your B.P. is any good (how much does it take to lift your shells). For 180g shell, it should not take more than 12-14g max.

If B.P. is good, then look at boosting shells with the slow flash (nitrate based sulfur, dark AL, and sulfur comp ) by adding a few grams to your already filled shells - before closing the shell, sprinkle slow flash booster onto granulated B.P. / or mix with granulated B.P. before adding burst to traditional cylinder shell / or sprinkle into burst as you fill the center of traditional 3" cylinder shell with granulated B.P.).

Lastly - don't use 70/30 to break your shells until you have a functional process to make shells without it. Then you can add it slowly the same way as slow flash booster, or by putting it in a flash bag on Spolette before filling with granulated B.P.

Good luck, ask questions, stay safe!

Edited by cmjlab, 26 July 2023 - 10:04 AM.

[Bbqjoe]

If you have crappy breaks - it is likely due to a lack of containment (accomplished by spiking on traditional cylinder shells & pasted paper layers on ball shells).

If your inserts don't light - that could be several issues, but assuming construction is adequate, the two most common issues are:
1. Using flash to break a shell with inserts, does not pass enough fire to ignite the insert fuses / stars (unless stars are B.P. based or specifically designed for hard breaks).
2. Not enough containment to allow heat & pressure build up before the shell breaks open, which provides enough time for fire to fully ignite the stars or inserts prior to the shell breaking open.

Less common ignition issues (again assuming priming, construction, formulas are good) include: priming not adequate to catch fire and ignite stars/inserts, prime not hot enough to ignite the layer below the prime (especially seen with high metal content and KCL04 compositions), stars / inserts still wet or picked up moisture from air...... The list goes on.

Not to criticize - my suggestion would be to begin with traditional construction of 3" shells (you said you read fulcanelli), using easy to make / inexpensive / easy to ignite B.P. based stars. Once you master the basics, or at least get a good handle on it, then try your less than traditional methods.

If not wanting to build the traditional way, try ball shells or premade cannisters, as those reduce learning curve / time spent on construction, but you should still use traditional B.P. based stars and burst, as those help guarantee good results early on, instead of failures that lead some to quit or give up trying.

For shell breaks (3" ball or cylinder): use granulated B.P. to break your shells. Off the breaks aren't spectacular, or suit your needs, then determine if your B.P. is any good (how much does it take to lift your shells). For 180g shell, it should not take more than 12-14g max.

If B.P. is good, then look at boosting shells with the slow flash (nitrate based sulfur, dark AL, and sulfur comp ) by adding a few grams to your already filled shells - before closing the shell, sprinkle slow flash booster onto granulated B.P. / or mix with granulated B.P. before adding burst to traditional cylinder shell / or sprinkle into burst as you fill the center of traditional 3" cylinder shell with granulated B.P.).

Lastly - don't use 70/30 to break your shells until you have a functional process to make shells without it. Then you can add it slowly the same way as slow flash booster, or by putting it in a flash bag on Spolette before filling with granulated B.P.

Good luck, ask questions, stay safe!

Thanks for the info, lots of things to try, yes?

 

My apologies, I misspoke concerning fulcanelli, diluting flash with sawdust is for salutes. I thought I'd give it a whack for breaks.

After last nights close successes, I may try using boosted granulated bp next. (which I have not tried yet)

 

I don't like having to download people's videos to my computer for a number of reasons, the foremost being it's inconvenient, and second it takes up space when you forget to delete them.

 

So I set up a quick YT channel as an experiment.

All videos are unlisted, and will only work with the links provided here.

Should this become problematic on any level I will cease posting them.

 

The following shots are in order as described above in the previous post.

 

Results: 004(1) went nicely, and if you didn't know any better, you might say it was pretty good.

But, it appears two or three went off during break, the other two went close to perfect.

It's possible that only two went at break, and a third turned into a streamer of sorts.

 

004(2) All but one went off at break. Obviously burst charge was too strong.

 

004(3) Not exactly sure what happened but my guess is that 2 went on break, and two flew left and went off.

Possibly a third one went right and blew out, I can't quite tell.

[cmjlab]

That is how I do my YouTube videos as well.... works good for me.

[Mumbles]

It's a little hard to say exactly what is happening with them.  One suggestion that may make it easier to diagnose, or at least track, is to use a different composition in the insert shells.  Infinitely easier to tell if the inserts are simply not lighting or if the inserts are going off with the burst.  If you happen to have any atomized or spherical aluminum, D1 glitter might make a good contrast.  If you have it, the other components are just BP ingredients and baking soda.  It's pretty, would stand out, and also go along pretty well with the tiger tail.  

 

Inserts not lighting, and inserts being destroyed and going off with the burst have two different fixes so it'd be helpful to try to confirm what is happening.  

[Bbqjoe]

I think after this post, I'll start my own thread......

 

Thanks for the reply and suggestions Mr. Mumbles Sir!

 

Here's another insert shot.

This one is (8) 1/2"OD 5/8"ID spolette tubes appx 2" tall rammed with varying numbers of lifts for random timing, topped with flash.

They're primed using NC and granulated bp, sitting on a small base of meal D with some lift (appx 4 grams) for burst.

This time the inserts lit perfectly, but there wasn't much spread.

I just got ahold of some rice hulls and I'm gonna take a whack at my first batch of MCRH for burst real soon.

 

 

https://youtu.be/QhO_akSJ2bY

 

And just for entertainment purposes, here's a mess of tigertails and flash.

It's just too bad that Iphones are so lame at audio.

 

https://youtu.be/5qDA3LHZLkw

Edited by Bbqjoe, 03 August 2023 - 01:46 PM.