My thumb was blown off half a section.

[CaverCork]

I have my magic flash items for stage use and have lots of fun with them. I was noting the sparks erupting from his hand, which seem to indicate, to me anyway, something more than standard stage effects. But there are a plethora of compositions out there, so I may have been a bit unfair.

But I have lost all use of the intrinsic muscles in my right hand due to a car accident, as well as half of my thumb and two fingertips and I totally concur with your prognosis. His hand will never recover. It's been nine years now and I finally have some sensation other than pain now, but not much.

[lloyd]

I was noting the sparks erupting from his hand, which seem to indicate, to me anyway, something more than standard stage effects.

--------------

I don't know. I have a tiny cache of flash paper doped with very fine Ti particles. It sparks prettily when lit, and doesn't really BURN you, although it's a little bit uncomfortable on inner-arm skin. (and I'd not want it near my eyes!)

 

LLoyd

[Mumbles]

Lloyd, I don't think we're talking about nitrocellulose here. It appears to be black powder if I had to guess. There's no accompanying thread, at least not a remaining one. It's not something I would have normally deleted, just warned of the dangers and locked probably. It's hard to say for certain however.

 

http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/gallery/album/310-fireworks/ They're about 2/3 of the way down, just before the accident pictures. No one can tell for certain. The composition burning in his hand was uploaded at the same time as probable BP pictures. The following picture is probably the most indicative. I've never seen NC combust this sparky, have this much smoke, and it certainly shouldn't turn his entire hand black.

 

http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/gallery/image/3442-dsc00012/

 

Also, I think this thread speaks volumes. http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/10852-whistling-spollettes-%f0%9f%98%83%f0%9f%98%83%f0%9f%98%83%f0%9f%98 I feel bad for him, but it's clear he has unsafe working practices that he was strongly warned about almost a year ago.

[Maxim]

I don't see anything "insane" in lighting BP on your palm. But I won't go for anything hotter. I did it as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgUsB1MMSlo

[lloyd]

I'll "carefully" agree with Max on this. The "standard test of quality" for BP over the centuries has been burning a bit of it in one's hand, and having it burn so quickly and completely so as NOT to burn the hand.

 

I will also say -- this is NOT a test for a 'beginner' making BP. But I've done it, and have friends who have -- without injury.

 

Knowing what is and what is not 'good' BP helps in that regard.

 

I don't agree with "wild abandon" in experimentation, though. One can always get in contact with someone who has professional experience in the art, and it's sure a lot safer to do that than to "just guess"!

 

LLoyd

[Maxim]

Yes, you are right, Lloyd. I don't understand one thing....he is not a well-english speaking person?

[lloyd]

Max,

He's certainly not a 'native English speaker'. He seems to do pretty well with the written word, with a few 'unique' terms I can recognize as native language-related.

 

I don't think his language is the barrier. I think it's 'wisdom of choices'.

 

IF the injury he depicted is his, then he will never regain the proper use of that hand. I hope and wish that not to be the case.

 

Lloyd

[mabuse00]

Sorry benrenyi.

 

Best wishes for your short thumb, I hope you get it fully back into action quickly.

 

 

If you feel so, please give us a detailed report about what you did, no matter how stupid it was.

If you feel you cannot decribe it properly in english, try the google translator

https://translate.google.com/

 

Even if the output sounds weird sometimes, it often helps me to understand languages I have nil knowledge of

[DavidF]

I think the third link Mumbles provided in Post #28 explains it as well as it needs to be explained. He was 'blending' chemicals in a very thick 'mortor' and the stuff went off. Do we really need a verdict in the court of public opinion? He did several dangerous things and one of them injured him. We know what those things are, if we read the available information. Dagabu, where's that horse?

[OldMarine]

[lloyd]

Do we really need a verdict in the court of public opinion?

------------------

HELL YES, Dave! It has nothing to DO with "beating a dead horse". It has EVERYTHING TO DO WITH HELPING PREVENT OTHER NEW PYROS from doing the same stupid crap!

 

We are (inappropriately) so intent on NOT OFFENDING that we've lost track of part of the very REASON for being "offensive". That reason is to teach a lesson -- to prevent others from making the same stupid mistakes.

 

I do NOT care whom I offend with my criticisms, if I can prevent even ONE such STUPID INJURY to a person who would otherwise not know better!

 

PERIOD!

 

Lloyd

[dagabu]

I think the third link Mumbles provided in Post #28 explains it as well as it needs to be explained. He was 'blending' chemicals in a very thick 'mortor' and the stuff went off. Do we really need a verdict in the court of public opinion? He did several dangerous things and one of them injured him. We know what those things are, if we read the available information. Dagabu, where's that horse?

 

 

dead-horse.gif

 

Thank OM!

[dagabu]

Do we really need a verdict in the court of public opinion?

------------------

HELL YES, Dave! It has nothing to DO with "beating a dead horse". It has EVERYTHING TO DO WITH HELPING PREVENT OTHER NEW PYROS from doing the same stupid crap!

 

We are (inappropriately) so intent on NOT OFFENDING that we've lost track of part of the very REASON for being "offensive". That reason is to teach a lesson -- to prevent others from making the same stupid mistakes.

 

I do NOT care whom I offend with my criticisms, if I can prevent even ONE such STUPID INJURY to a person who would otherwise not know better!

 

PERIOD!

 

Lloyd

 

Being one of those dumb-asses myself, I agree with Lloyd. My situation was a little different but in the end I eliminated the ground and that was pretty darn stupid. If anyone can learn from my accident, benrenyi, Mumbles and even Lloyds, a little straight talk is necessary BUT there is no correction or healing in name calling or intentional cruelty in the face of injury. I am pretty sure that Lloyd was just shooting straight, even if it offends some.

Thicker skin is needed for pyro.

[pyroman2498]

Thicker skin is needed for pyro.

 

That's what calluses are for , gotta get roughed up a bit before they form.

Been on this forum for a better part of 5 or so years if you include my old account and i can personally say that when i first joined i had no calluses , now I've been roughed up a bit i have thinker skin

Stay Safe and Stay Green

~Steven

[DavidF]

Hey members! Check out the video in the thread in Mumbles' third link in post #28. If you want to avoid accidents, get these guys to warn you about the extremely dangerous practices shown there. That would certainly merit discussion! Let's face it: chatting about burning powder in the hand ain't exactly saving lives. Discussing the third link- or even just reading the comments in that thread- could save your life. After watching it, it will probably be obvious (to most) what happened to the OP. That would be valuable.

[Seymour]

I'll "carefully" agree with Max on this. The "standard test of quality" for BP over the centuries has been burning a bit of it in one's hand, and having it burn so quickly and completely so as NOT to burn the hand.

 

I will also say -- this is NOT a test for a 'beginner' making BP. But I've done it, and have friends who have -- without injury.

 

 

I'm going to strongly agree with this.

 

A perhaps widely known of test is the A4 test, where a gram or so of BP is ignited on a sheet of A4 paper. With "good" BP there will be a smudge, but no smoldering spots or burn marks and certainly no flames afterwards. BP that does burn holes in the paper is good for many applications, so with fireworks don't discarded BP that is not top notch.

 

I have lit BP on my finger nails but not my palm. However I would consider it, but I would be doing so knowing that it may burn me. As such I'd use a quantity much under a gram so the burn would hurt but not do a lot of damage. Essentially I'd do so planning to be burned but hoping not to, and I suggest that anyone who wishes to attempt it have this attitude.

 

Just to state this very clearly for anyone (no one in particular) who might think that the hand test is the normal or perhaps even a safe way to test BP, use the paper test, and use a fuse, or a long stick with a glowing ember. I see too many people testing BP with a cigarette lighter or ordinary matches.

 

It might only sting you in this case, but if you use a lighter out of convenience and don't plan for how it might go wrong, this kind of attitude could cause much worse events when you are dealing with greater dangers. I did silly things like light comps with a lighter then get unexpectedly burned in my first months as I'm sure have many members, but it is just not a safe attitude.

 

 

benrenyi4,

 

Other than saying that it would be good to have more information I'm not going to get involved in what may or may or not have happened. The more information that people have, the more we are able to learn how to make accidents less likely for everyone.

 

I hope that your injuries have been healing well that that your recovery can be as full as possible.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Seymour

[stix]

I'm sorry to hear that this happened to you benrenyi4 (or anyone). I hope you recover well. The only positive of your unfortunate accident is a lesson to others.

 

Hey members! Check out the video in the thread in Mumbles' third link in post #28. If you want to avoid accidents, get these guys to warn you about the extremely dangerous practices shown there. That would certainly merit discussion! Let's face it: chatting about burning powder in the hand ain't exactly saving lives. Discussing the third link- or even just reading the comments in that thread- could save your life. After watching it, it will probably be obvious (to most) what happened to the OP. That would be valuable.

 

Thanks for pointing out that link David. Post #11 is ominous: http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/10852-whistling-spollettes-%f0%9f%98%83%f0%9f%98%83%f0%9f%98%83%f0%9f%98/. I've read it again and again - and to think that the grim outcome was predicted, makes it even more salient.

 

Mumbles:

If you keep up those VERY unsafe practices, you're going to have an accident. It's not a maybe or and if, but a when.

 

It's a reminder to new (or any) members of this forum to take stock and re-evaluate potential un-safe practices. It's all well and good to get the "good" info. At the top of the list should always be safety - listen to the advice from the experienced members - that's what this forum is about.

 

Be safe - take care.

Edited May 6, 2016 by stix

[Dean411]

All i can say is that he was lucky it was only part of his thumb and not an entire hand,arm or life.

Everyone should take a minute to reflect on how they do things and whether or not they take shortcuts or practice unsafe procedures.

Wish him the best and a good recovery.

 

Dean

Edited May 6, 2016 by Dean411

[lloyd]

Dean,

It became pretty clear early-on that the 'accident' depicted was not a pyro accident. He's an unsafe operator, to be sure, but that appeared NOT to be his, nor from pyro. Further, he claims essentially full healing and recovery, except for tinnitus after less than a year. NO...

His wounds are not consistent with explosive injuries:

 

1) no burns

2) use of betadine all over -- normally eschewed for use on burnt skin (thanks for that insight, Patrick)

3) very localized amputation with almost no mutilation of adjacent tissues.

 

As I mentioned earlier -- I got to see a LOT of explosive amputations in 'Nam... they just don't look like that.

 

Lloyd

[Dean411]

Lloyd I DIDNT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT PYRO!

I was speaking of life in general.

2 years ago i had a 2" slotting cutter(live tooling) in a lathe grab my hand (gloved) and pull it into and started wrapping itself around the cutter it chewed my hand up pretty good before the glove was tore up enough to get my hand out of it.

1. I shouldnt of been reaching around a spinning tool.

2. I should not of had a glove on.

 

My point was (no matter the reason) he could have most likely been worse.

 

 

D

Edited May 6, 2016 by Dean411

[lloyd]

My point was (no matter the reason) he could have most likely been worse.

0--0

 

Oh... I agree with all that 'philosophical stuff', Dean... I'm just not sure it even happened TO HIM at all.

 

I'm pretty certain that the particular injury depicted did not happen to him from pyro. So we're left wondering why he would have represented it as a pyro accident (and there was that appropriate comment, too, about 'all pictures, but no information').

 

Real life is tough enough. We don't have to mime failures and injuries. We'll have enough of them to last us! <G>

 

LLoyd

[Dean411]

I didnt have time to read everything oosted so i didnt know anything beyond page 1

[WindowLicka]

Being one of those dumb-asses myself, I agree with Lloyd. My situation was a little different but in the end I eliminated the ground and that was pretty darn stupid. If anyone can learn from my accident, benrenyi, Mumbles and even Lloyds, a little straight talk is necessary BUT there is no correction or healing in name calling or intentional cruelty in the face of injury. I am pretty sure that Lloyd was just shooting straight, even if it offends some.

Thicker skin is needed for pyro.

 

I'm having trouble finding the post on your accident raga I. Can someone shoot a link?

[lloyd]

LINK? Why not just check out the first post in this thread? (really?)

 

LLoyd

[DavidF]

Applying a bit of common sense led me to think that when Windowlicka addresses Raga I, he is addressing Dagabu. His phone has corrected him. My clue was that he specifically referred to Dagabu's post while asking for further information. Also: Raga I is more similar to Daqabu than it is to Benrenyi, so of the 2 choices, Dagabu was obvious to me.

 

My conclusion: Windowlicka is guilty of not spell-checking his auto-correct- but not guilty of failing to read the first post. While the punishments may be the same, the errors differ. So, he is guilty of a lesser offense and deserving of mercy.

 

What does this all mean? IMHO, he wants to know about Dagabu's accident, not the OP's! Can we let him off and let Dagabu answer- if he comes back to the thread?