Salutes and boomers

[Merlin]

I am not a knewl or boomer or such. I do make aerial fireworks. My question regards one of clarification. A shell propelled into the air or a rocket or crossette may contain flash powder in excess of 50mg (such as a 4 inch plastic ball shell) and when they burst a report is definitely heard this is a aerial salute but is legal. Moving on to ground salutes- no more than 50mg of flash. My question is this if the ground salute were made that did not contain flash but simply a quantity of BP would this be illegal under the rule on ground reports? I am just wanting to make some to place into armadillo and ground hog dens to flush them out. Since flash is both oxidizer and a metal powder but BP contains no metal powder it could be considered as a illegal ground report?

 

These are not intended for pyrotechnics but actually pest control.

[Andres1511]

Using explosives as a pest control doesn't look like a good idea to me.
I seriously doubt if it would be effective too, unless you bomb the whole area....

[Nessalco]

I dunno - I found that BP maroons (yarn bombs) do wonders for reducing the chipmunk population.

 

Also - I make ground salutes far bigger than 50mg of flash. I'm not sure I understand why you are using that limitation - if I'm not mistaken that's a restriction that applies to 1.4g? Our club makes up gabe mort for some shows - and those are 5 pounds or more....

 

Kevin

[Merlin]

Using explosives as a pest control doesn't look like a good idea to me.

I seriously doubt if it would be effective too, unless you bomb the whole area....

[nater]

I believe the 50 mg flash is for consumer grade firecrackers and consumer aerial devices can have up 120 mg of flash for noise.

 

There are also rules for commercial fireworks besides shell size for something to be classed as 1.3g or 1.1g.

 

Explosives work well for pest control. Aerial salutes are good at scaring birds, larger crackers are decent at scaring deer away. I did find out that a string of 50 mg crackers will not scare Canadian Geese away, they just turned their heads and hissed at me.

[Merlin]

I don't mean saturation bombing. You must locate the den and place the salute inside. When I was a kid back in the 60s the department of agriculture made available bulk boxes of m-80s for this use to farmers. My best friends dad ran a farm so we had access to several gross clearly marks US DEPARTMENT of agriculture. Shortly afterwards they were no longer available. I had another friend whose uncle had an wood she'd with a supply of dynamite. We had fun tossing sticks into rock crusher ponds an blowing gar among other species. Just like depth charging submarines. Things sure have changed! If you can get a decent salute into the den of a armadillo or ground hog it will run out and you simply don't it. It does work!

[Merlin]

I believe the 50 mg flash is for consumer grade firecrackers and consumer aerial devices can have up 120 mg of flash for noise.

 

There are also rules for commercial fireworks besides shell size for something to be classed as 1.3g or 1.1g.

 

Explosives work well for pest control. Aerial salutes are good at scaring birds, larger crackers are decent at scaring deer away. I did find out that a string of 50 mg crackers will not scare Canadian Geese away, they just turned their heads and hissed at me.

[Merlin]

Better watch the hissing ones. I have a farmer friend that was out checking cows on a 4 wheeler and Canadian geese had been hanging around. Suddenly on took an interest either in my friend or the four wheeler. It attacked! Landed on his head and wouldn't back off. When he got to the ER to be stitched up and they asked what happened he said he was attacked by a wild goose. The nurses thought a moment and cracked up! He had to repeat the account and they still laughed but it really did happen. It took a couple dozen stitches in his head.

[Merlin]

Maybe I don't understand. I routinely use 5 or more grams of 70/30 in 4 and 5 inch plastic ball shells but I thought it is illegal to put it in something intended as a ground report. Period.

[Nessalco]

https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/pr/illegal-explosives-devices

 

We are not regulated by CPSC. If you are acting legally as far as ATF license and local regulations, there is nothing illegal about ground salutes, per se.With that said, if you made them in red or silver tubes, with green visco fuse, the perception is that you are likely making them for sale. Major felony, that. Of course, the tubes and plugs are sold openly on eBay. Here's an example

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/KB-LOT-50-NEW-1-1-2-X-9-16-X1-16-RED-FIREWORKS-TUBES-PLUGS-PYRO-PAPER-/231631150021?hash=item35ee4adbc5:g:J5gAAMXQh5JRl5tg

 

Frankly, with stuff like this available and the insane number of boomer videos on YouTube, I'm surprised there aren't more accidents.

[Mumbles]

In 1966 the US passed the Child Protection Act of 1966, which limited M-80's and other ground salutes to 50mg. Maybe 10 years later, this was extended to all ground fireworks, while aerial fireworks were limited to 130mg. Both of these only apply to 1.4g consumer fireworks. It's possible to find stuff snuck through customs or the CPSC that contains more. These are normally known as "overloads" or "Baby B". The professional stuff (1.3g) does not have the same limits. There might be some regulations still, but I'm not sure what they are.

 

Long story short, any thing we make is automatically 1.3g anyway, even if it meets the 1.4g requirements. To be considered for the lesser hazard class, the device needs to pass an inspection and get an EX number. The 5g in your shells, or 5g in a ground salute are probably just as against the law. If you get caught however, they will often look more poorly upon the ground salutes vs. the shells. They have a worse reputation as I'm sure you're aware. We tend to operate in a slightly grey area according to federal law.

[Nessalco]

Oops - sorry. I just looked at Alabama law

 

http://www.firemarshal.alabama.gov/PDF/FireworksAlabamaLaw.pdf

 

The limits you mentioned do seem to apply for fireworks.

 

Kevin

Edited December 31, 2015 by Nessalco

[Nessalco]

Mumbles,

 

I've always understood that our homemade fireworks are not 1.3g - they are display fireworks, indeed, as defined by the Orange Book, but do not have a DOT shipping class. That's what the 1.3g/1.4g designations are. Our fireworks are not 'in commerce' and don't fall under those shipping categories.

 

There are limits on shell size in NFPA 1123, but again, that applies to commercial operations. I've talked with the State Fire Marshal's office here, and they have made clear they have no jurisdiction or interest. Beware, though - each state is going to have a different body of laws, for example, Alabama's specific limits on flash powder in any fireworks device.

 

 

Merlin - take a look at this

 

http://www.firemarshal.alabama.gov/PDF/BlastingArticle9.pdf

 

Section 8-17-254 (7) specifically exempts the occasional personal use of explosives for agricultural purposes, which sounds like your case - pest control.

 

I must say though - I find exception 11 a little odd. Remodeling with explosives

 

Kevin

Edited December 31, 2015 by Nessalco

[Mumbles]

You're right Nessalco. I don't think I was using the correct terminology, and you pointed out an important difference. I was trying make a conscious effort to not use the older class B and class C terminology, and might have confused things a little more. The main point being what we make is not classified as 1.4g or consumer fireworks, and will be treated that way, no matter what we do even if they're built to the accepted specifications.

[Merlin]

I make aerial shells, rockets, crossettes for my personal use on my property. I store BP and stars in a type 4 magazine. I do not give away, sell or transport anything over public roads. I do not have an ATF license because pyro is purely a hobby and does not involve others. I live in a rural area and all my pyro is confined to my property.

Alabama is fairly fireworks friendly at least in rural settings as long as you don't bother neighbors within ear shot or start brush fires.

If it seems to those of you with lots of knowledge in this that my activity is illegal I would appreciate you telling me as I do my best to comply with the law. I had dealings with ATF to get a machine gun but that was a one time fee and didn't involve any red tape beyond the local Sheriff. Considering this is a personal hobby persued only for myself if I can't use 5 grams flash in a 4 inch ball shell I need to quit and dispose of my chems.

This started over a salute question. I thought it is illegal to make an m-80 even though I use flash in aerial devices. I only wanted to know if a BP salute is also illegal.

But if my pyro is all together illegal it's a mute point.

I do not wish to "operate in a grey area of the law"

It is either legal or it is not legal to make fireworks for personal use.

Edited December 31, 2015 by Merlin

[lloyd]

http://www.pyrobin.com/files/ATF%20Interpretation%20Letter%20-%20Pyrotechnic%20Club%20Members%20Activities%20_%20ATF.pdf

 

This is the most-recent ruling of ATF concerning hobby activities. As is mentioned in the Q/A, if local regulations don't restrict you further, then this is what the feds apply.

 

LLoyd

[SideGlance]

i used this on a skunk one time... he died.. http://www.bonanza.com/listings/Giant-Destroyer-Smoke-Bombs-48-Pack-Kills-Gophers-Moles-Rats-Skunks-Squirrels/126636415?gpid=76983190021&gpkwd=&goog_pla=1&gclid=CjwKEAiAwZO0BRDvxs_1w-qFnhkSJABo10gg2r2tEezb9cWQfVJW6IysFx1Em-yKbNHKt98LuX9cqxoC6g7w_wcB

[Merlin]

i used this on a skunk one time... he died.. http://www.bonanza.com/listings/Giant-Destroyer-Smoke-Bombs-48-Pack-Kills-Gophers-Moles-Rats-Skunks-Squirrels/126636415?gpid=76983190021&gpkwd=&goog_pla=1&gclid=CjwKEAiAwZO0BRDvxs_1w-qFnhkSJABo10gg2r2tEezb9cWQfVJW6IysFx1Em-yKbNHKt98LuX9cqxoC6g7w_wcB

[Merlin]

I saw those that might be the best solution. Thanks

[Merlin]

http://www.pyrobin.com/files/ATF%20Interpretation%20Letter%20-%20Pyrotechnic%20Club%20Members%20Activities%20_%20ATF.pdf

 

This is the most-recent ruling of ATF concerning hobby activities. As is mentioned in the Q/A, if local regulations don't restrict you further, then this is what the feds apply.

 

LLoyd

[Merlin]

Thanks Lloyd. I understand those regs. I have still been under the impression that ground salutes containing flash is a no go for anyone without a high explosives license.

[Nessalco]

From my reading of Alabama law, ground salute fireworks are not allowed. Explosive charges for agricultural purposes are allowed for "occasional use". They specifically mention stump removal and pest control.

 

Any time folks have questions about 'what's legal', start with the internet and do some digging online. The Orange Book is where you start, then dig out your local laws. Every US state has them posted, most with excellent search capabilities. It took me 5 minutes to find both explosive and fireworks laws for Alabama, Merlin. They only total 12 pages, so it's not like it's a heavy read. If after reading them you have questions, pick up the phone to your local AHJ - so long as you present a professional attitude they will deal with you fairly. You might not like what they have to say, but they should (note I say should) be reasonable. If you still have questions, contact an attorney.

 

Kevin O

[layedbackkustomz]

i remember getting a report for whistle pig control back when we had a farm. they were called pest control 2000. heres what they looked like and a little read. http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Newsroom/News-Releases/2003/Missouri-Company-Ordered-To-Stop-Manufacturing-and-Selling-Illegal-Fireworks/

[dynomike1]

Here is a question i have been wondering about. Why wouldn't tannerite be considered a ground salute?

[lloyd]

It's not a firework, and cannot be ignited with a fuse. It falls in a weird regulatory crack, where the composition and packaging and ignition method put it in a class all by itself.

 

Lloyd