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Possible Stars/Comets with the chems I have?

star comet composition magnalium

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#1 OblivionFall

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 07:26 PM

Hi there,

 

getting into making stars.

 

I also have german dark aluminum powder (which I will mix with BP for break.) I also have 600 mesh atomized magnalium powder (1:1 Mg:Al) that I was hoping to use for flash until I tested it and it didn't work very well (because it is atomized.)

 

So I was wondering what stars I can potentially make with KNO3, Charcoal, Dextrin, Sulfur, Magnalium, (Eckart Al?), Red Iron Oxide besides gold stars?

I'm thinking of trying the MgAl with a TT mix to make some kind of N1 star. Not sure how it will turn out.

 

So if anyone knows what stars I can make with the chemicals I have or what chemicals I should buy to get into making stars that would be very helpful. I can't get perchlorate or chlorate where I live unless I make it myself. But I'd rather not.


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#2 MadMat

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 07:44 PM

Well colors are out with those ingredients. Charcoal stars (the "D"s) are about it. If you could get some bright flake aluminum, you could make Winokur 26 glitter. I use these myself. The formula is:

 (parts by weight)

52 Potassium nitrate

21 Sulfur

10 Charcoal

6 Bright Flake Aluminum

6 Red Iron Oxide

6 Dextrin

 

These are nice stars. They take fire rather easily (no need for special primes). I cut these stars. Just make sure you don't add too much water or the effect will get ruined.

 

If you were to get strontium nitrate and barium nitrate, plus a chlorine donor (parlon, pvc ect) you could make red and green stars.

A good site to look up formulas is http://pyrodata.com/composition/filter.


Edited by MadMat, 04 December 2015 - 07:56 PM.


#3 OblivionFall

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 10:37 PM

Well colors are out with those ingredients. Charcoal stars (the "D"s) are about it. If you could get some bright flake aluminum, you could make Winokur 26 glitter. I use these myself. The formula is:

 (parts by weight)

52 Potassium nitrate

21 Sulfur

10 Charcoal

6 Bright Flake Aluminum

6 Red Iron Oxide

6 Dextrin

 

These are nice stars. They take fire rather easily (no need for special primes). I cut these stars. Just make sure you don't add too much water or the effect will get ruined.

 

If you were to get strontium nitrate and barium nitrate, plus a chlorine donor (parlon, pvc ect) you could make red and green stars.

A good site to look up formulas is http://pyrodata.com/composition/filter.

Ok I will try that comp out with magnalium with and without red iron oxide and if it doesn't work I'll buy some bright flake Al.

 

Which of the three (parlon, pvc, etc) would be cheapest? Making colour stars sounds like an option. I can definitely buy strontium nitrate or barium nitrate.

 

EDIT: Just did a search through the forum and this Barium Nitrate star comp has taken my interest:

Ba(NO3)2....4parts
dark aluminium(fine).....1part
pvc....1/4 parts
sulfer...1parts
boric acid...1 to 2 percent
bind with dextrin and water. 


Edited by OblivionFall, 04 December 2015 - 10:44 PM.

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#4 DaMounty

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 07:20 AM

I started out making different variations of charcoal stars and using those comps to practice cutting and pumping. Kept things relatively cheap, and did not use up my more expensive Chems.

DaM

#5 MadMat

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 12:50 PM

DaMounty has a point. Most pyros have "cut their teeth" on charcoal stars and for good reason. The chems are low priced and formulas relatively simple. Some of them can take a long time to dry though.

 

Just so you know the Winokur glitter is a thermite based glitter. The reaction of red iron oxide and aluminum is what creates the effect. So you may be disappointed with the results of your proposed changes.


Edited by MadMat, 05 December 2015 - 01:06 PM.


#6 OblivionFall

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 02:40 PM

DaMounty has a point. Most pyros have "cut their teeth" on charcoal stars and for good reason. The chems are low priced and formulas relatively simple. Some of them can take a long time to dry though.

 

Just so you know the Winokur glitter is a thermite based glitter. The reaction of red iron oxide and aluminum is what creates the effect. So you may be disappointed with the results of your proposed changes.

Not sure it will work then. I only have eckart aluminum and I tried it with red iron oxide and couldn't get it to work at all.

 

I think I'll just try to make some sort of N1 glitter with my magnalium and in the end if it doesn't work I'll stick with basic TT stars and wait until I get stuff like strontium and barium to make colour.


Edited by OblivionFall, 05 December 2015 - 02:42 PM.

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#7 Mumbles

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 04:05 PM

You probably should stick to published formulas as written for now.  I don't think you have the experience yet to be able to objectively decide when substitutions are appropriate, will work, or are safe. 

 

It looks like you'll need to make a small investment in chemicals to be able to make much of anything.  Probably the best way to do this would be to sit down and decide what you'd like to learn how to do or devices you want to make.  Right now you're basically limited to black powder and charcoal based compostions.  This really isn't a bad place to be.  You can learn how to make many things with what you already possess.  They're the easiest, cheapest, and most forgiving types of compositions generally. 

 

If I were in your shoes I'd look into getting atomized aluminum or coarser magnalium (-200 mesh is most versatile IMO).  The 600 mesh stuff you have isn't good for much actual pyrotechnics.  Both the aluminum and MgAl will make glitters.  The coarser MgAl will also be an ideal fuel for colored stars.  The green formula above will make a recognizable green color, but in my opinion are overall kind of shitty.  You also need to remember that metal fueled stars are not easy to get lit sometimes, so you'll need a hot prime to get them going.  These can be nitrate based, but many of the most effective are pechlorate based.  Barium nitrate does lend a unique effect to some glitters however, so it may be worthwhile to look into.  Barium carbonate is also an effective glitter delay agent for white glitters. 

 

Another thing to look for is iron/steel or titanium.  They can often be found as turnings or industrial by-products.  These compliment BP based effects well, and are simple ways to really open up your available effect range. 

 

If I were you, I'd focus on learning the techniques and learning how to make effective shells, mines, fountains, etc before worrying about adding colors.


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#8 schroedinger

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 04:37 PM

Start out by making a batch of TT, then C8, C6 and Mystery. All Formulas are included in Fast. Best pump these Comps, as they take very long to dry. Either Ball mill them for 30 min or dissolve the Nitratre in Water (C6 9%, TT 12% water content, just try to dissolve as much nitrate as is possible in these ammount of water, the left over nitrate goes straight into the mix). This is done to impregnate the Nitrate into the charcoal. Else just roll or cut. These processes use enough water to impregnate the charcoal in cold state.
Else get Ti or Atomized Al to make glitter.
If you can get barium and strontium nitrate, then get 'em to proceed further. As well you will need perc and red gum. Start with organic color stars. Shimizu red, Green, Pyroscience Blue (add +2 pyro Al to increase it burning temo slightly and keep it burning at high wind speeds).

#9 Arthur

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 04:44 PM

When you have charcoal stars working in mines and shells and in different sizes, and maybe you have perfected rockets, then you could look at colours. You can usually sub a colour star for a charcoal star with little trouble. Then you get all sorts of things you can make. Quietly observe where to buy desirable chemicals and buy things as you can, that way you keep having the opportunity to progress.



#10 Mumbles

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 05:59 PM

Schroedinger, have you ever seen any compelling evidence that the charcoal impregnation theory is anything more than an old wives tale?  I see it tossed around a lot, but have never actually seen anyone test it out.  Cut, pumped, and rolled stars all give slightly different effects on their own, even with the same formula. 

 

I for one would be interested in seeing if there is any discernible difference between a pumped star made with just water vs. dissolving some of the nitrate in hot water prior to wetting. 


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The sky is my canvas, and I have 2,113 pounds of powdered paint in the workshop.

#11 schroedinger

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 07:42 PM

Yes mumbles there is an effect. This becommes more interesting the more coarse the charcoal is. The comp made with a wet process or dissolved nitrate in case of pumped stars burn with brighter sparks and much faster. I had that problem with TT stars and commercial charcoal. They always reached the ground and left only a small tail of dim sparks. 8 mm stars in a 3" reached ground. When i made them with the dissolved nitrate, they left a nice tail, a little brighter sparks and nothing reached ground. The same effect can be reached by just using a ball mill for mixing. 15 min in a ball mill or 30 in a nin modiefied rock tumbler.
If you use a good pyro charcoal the effect how dim the sparks are is greatly lowered, but the burn speed of the comp is higher.

#12 MadMat

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 02:36 PM

Dam mumbles, as usual what you posted made my advice sound; well not exactly bad, but rather badly incomplete.



#13 Mumbles

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 07:25 PM

What you posted was still good advice.  I've honestly never thought about the thermite aspect of some of those glitters.  My post was mostly a result of needing to kill some time yesterday at work.  When I get bored, I can get.......thorough. :)


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#14 MrB

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 11:03 PM

My post was mostly a result of needing to kill some time yesterday at work.  When I get bored, I can get.......thorough.

Dude... No offense, but, you need to be bored a LOT more often. I like the end result when you have to much time on your hands.

B!


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