Twignberry Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Hi All, After completing my visco machine and ending up with something functional but not great, I'm thinking there are more than a few people out there like me who can't easily buy visco fuse and don't have the tools to manufacture their own Visco Machine to produce it. I've recently gotten into 3D printing and acquired a laser cutter so now have all the tools at my disposal to make a much more professional and capable machine. What would be the interest if I were to design up something and offer it as a kit? I've only got a very rough idea but here are my thoughts. 200mm-300mm cubic footprint. Hopefully I can keep it to 200mm PLA and Acrylic components Independent speed controlled spindles and winder via stepper motors for tuning 12 threads per spindle to produce roughly 2-2.5mm visco (after coating) 90 degree drive so first spindle is vertical and second spindle is horizontal. This should minimise powder dusting the second spindle, reducing the chance of visco taking fire from its side. Also much easier to load and clear jams Should be able to produce fuse at a minimum of 4m/minute. In the kit would be a flat pack style acrylic frame and spindle with printed dies, bearings, gears, fasteners etc. Basically all hardware required.I would have to finalise the design and get a better handle on time taken and material cost to produce each kit but I'm guessing somewhere around the $150-$200 USD mark. Stuff that would be purchased separately as they are readily availableIt would require 3 Nema 17 stepper motors, an arduino mega or clone, ramps 1.4 with 3x stepper drivers and a 12V lower power supply totaling about $100 USD. So let me know if you are interested and if there are enough people, I will put the effort into creating a design. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TYRONEEZEKIEL Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I am very interested! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MondoMage Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Count me as interested as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memo Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 yes.very interested. also 1/4 inch time fuse. memo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogeryermaw Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 if you can include everything needed for around $200 i will buy for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeee Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 You can cut some of your material expense by using drop offs from Corian Counter Tops.You can sometimes get these for free from the fabricators and some of them sell them for scrap price.If you can't find a local counter top installer, there are usually several listings on Ebay for scrap pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 IMO 1/4" time fuse could be made from visco with an overwind of paper (till roll?) and another covering of counterwound strings. BUT if time fuse if hard to obtain then some fusing and delays can be done with spolletes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrB Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 So let me know if you are interested and if there are enough people, I will put the effort into creating a design. It all comes down to cost, how "neat" the unit is when in use (one that sprays BP everywhere is less attractive then one that requires minimal maintenance when it has done it's thing) and for my own needs and wants, i actually want one that wraps a strip of paper between the 2 layers of string. Given that you already plan on designing it with the 90 degree bend, it's a fairly straight forward addition.But the price is, as they say, just right.Stepper motors, and an arduino mega... Well, as long as the software is there, it's just money. I'd suggest the feed-speed be determined not by the winding bobin at the end, since that makes the speed higher the more fuse is on the roll. So something like a friction pull on the fuse, and a friction slip on the spool where the fuse gets winded up. Anyway, good luck, will keep an eye out for this. B! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeee Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Keep the design simple and you will have a larger market of interested people.KISS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I would place a pulley between the 2nd platter and the take-up drum, driving both with one stepper. A few turns of fuse on the pulley will give you enough tension from the capstan effect.. If the take up drum is connected to its drive plate via magnets it will slip when the tension becomes excessive. The only issue then is coating the finished fuse with n/c lacquer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insutama Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Count me in I would definatly buy one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twignberry Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 Thanks for the responses guys, It seems there's enough interest to move forward. I will start getting some designs together and post back once I have something substantial. Regarding paper winders, collection spools and NC coating, I can try and add these things but each new feature adds to the cost, size and complexity. My goal here isn't to make a huge profit, its a bit of a learning exercise. I'm aiming to help out pyros who may not have easy access to fuse so as Mikeee stated, I'm going to keep it simple. Perhaps with facilities to add all the additional features On a side note, I have also realised that small star plates could be printed cheaply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insutama Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 i would also be interested in 1/4" star plate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrB Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Regarding paper winders, collection spools and NC coating, I can try and add these things but each new feature adds to the cost, size and complexity.If at all feasible, i think having a very basic machine as the kit, with a few optionals available, might be the best way to go. The cost of a thing to wrap the paper around the fuse might be worth it to me, but not to anyone else, and if they feel it pushes the price over the top, then your sort of screwed on sales. It also means people can "upgrade" later on, by opting to buy the options. Dunno, makes sense to me at least.B! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stix Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 (edited) I think twiggy is just touching the surface with the possibilities of the technology, and a great thing that is. What has been achieved is great - fantastic!. It's made me think a bit more about 3D printers and the future. I envisage in 7 to 12yrs time, I'll be able to make my own tooling without the need for a lathe (or twiggy... - no offence). High resolution and hard wearing, heat resistant material - light as a feather and with the strength of carbon fibre... it will happen. Then another thought comes to mind. If I can make my own rocket tooling, washing machine and car parts, who's going to fit the bloody things? Perhaps it's time to change my trade. Cheers. [EDIT] I agree with what MrB said, optional add-ons will make it more useable. Edited September 6, 2015 by stix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeee Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Might as well have a 3-D printer that uses pyro compounds to print your shells and rockets.Here is the other side of the coin, how many computers, laptops, printers and software have we each purchased over the years.How much money was spent on each of these products when they were first introduced into the market. (too much)3-D printers will turn into the same consumable product, the printer will be cheap but the refill cartridges will be expensive.Wood and metal is a renewable and recyclable product and usually lasts a lifetime. Writing a program and pushing a button kind of defeats the purpose of a craft or art form. If we want to simplify to that level, why not just purchase a few cases of class-b product and light the fuse. Working with your hands to build tools and projects and fireworks allows us all to hone the skills needed to build and fabricate with basic tools and materials. We are quickly becoming societies reliant on third world countries making all of our goods and services while we become unskilled pawns with a credit card. Wealth has always been created by taking a raw product or service and turning it into a usable product that has a demand. The latest corporate strategy is outsourcing white collar jobs to third world countries, the more skills you have in your arsenal will always be a resource you can rely on. The 3-D printer market is quickly becoming a saturated market and the technologies quickly become outdated. There are a number of websites that list owners of 3-D printers that will print items you need for a reasonable price. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zan89 Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 if thing will work good i'm in!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave321 Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 I'm interested if only for the novelty factorbut the thing must work and be capable of actual fuse productionprice is the killer, anything over $200 may kill itwould also need good assembly instructions, and a perhaps a video. do you have a vid of your current set up which is working ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twignberry Posted September 15, 2015 Author Share Posted September 15, 2015 Sorry its been a while, progress has been slower than I hoped with life getting in the way. I've attached a 3d pdf It's still a work in progress but I'm getting much closer now. Work completed-All parts in 3d pdf printed (I have a nice pile of parts going)-All frame sections and brackets spec'd-All hardware (not shown) sourced and spec'd-Drive mechanism printed and tested, I would post video but it really isn't impressive yet Work to do-Powder funnel and leader thread spool mounts-Feed drive-90 degree bearing mount Some key features-Independent control of each spindle and the feed system-quick change spindle system so clearing jams or replacing spools is a breeze-very rough weight estimate 3.5kg-dimensions 300x300x170mm (12"x12"x7")-90 degree spindle orientation so powder doesn't spill onto the second die. This makes the fuse more resistant to side ignition. Mikeee you may be joking but it is entirely possible to print pyro components using powder inkjet printers. http://ytec3d.com/plan-b/, the linked open source printer project is a hobbyist take on zcorps well developed industrial printers The concept is to spray a binder (using inkjet cartridges) onto successive layers of powder. In the pyro context, this could be basically any composition with low viscosity binders, water, alcohol etc. I don't think the art is ever taken out of the craft, our tools are just developing to allow us greater freedom to create more elaborate end products. 3d printing is not and will never be as simple as pushing a button for the designers, every manufacturing process has its pros/cons and we have to be aware of the limitations and take full advantage of the freedoms. Also FYI, 3d printing has been around a lot longer than most think and is not limited to plastics. There is a plethora of technologies for other materials such as selective laser sintering, electon beam sintering, inket powder printing, UV curing resins and binders, FDM.frame assy.PDF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twignberry Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 Progress!!! I have the prototype assembled and running. Along with a few mounts like for the control board and routing, there's still a bit of tweaking left to be done but its nice to have a physical, functional machine. I'll need to work out hours and cost per unit to settle on a price but I am getting very close now. I'm not entirely happy about the powder spillage onto the second spool but it shouldn't affect the end product. Most of it drops in the first second of startup anyway. The spindles are driven and retained on herringbone gears so they easily just 'click' out as a unit to allow for quick respooling or clearing jams. It's also easy to adjust the spindle and winder speeds by just updating three defined variables at the start of the code. http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p132/rangaz/Printed%20Visco%20Machine/IMG_5325_zpsx0ugnbd2.jpg http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p132/rangaz/Printed%20Visco%20Machine/IMG_0318_zpsrbkrjs8x.jpg http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p132/rangaz/Printed%20Visco%20Machine/IMG_5329_zpscgx0mvlt.jpg And a test run with charcoalhttp://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p132/rangaz/Printed%20Visco%20Machine/th_test%20run_zpsiy1iq1ye.mp4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 That looks awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memo Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 glad to see it is making progress, still interested here. memo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zan89 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 uau looks great!machine is fast in visco making.. cant wait to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLpyroBP Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Count me in I'm interested Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asdercks Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 and you've got my attention, I'd be interested in one of those...IF the price is right 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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