best cheap coloring powder for smoke powder ?

[mohammacl]

hello

i'm searching for suitable and cheap powder to add to R-Candy and make the smoke colored .

i asked my source of chemical shop and he tell me there is some type of coloring powder

Water-soluble

and

oil-soluble

and there is other type from them like :

industrial coloring

food coloring (best but very expensive ...)

Health coloring

 

which woeking good with R-Candy please help me ?

[deer]

None. Read up on it more. Rcandy burns too hot. Instead of evaporating / subliming the dye it just burns it up. If you pay attention, most you-tubers and other casual pyro's don't ever test this. They just mention you could add dye for colour, but don’t demonstrate it (or the preparation process).

Most commercial colour smokes use KClO3, KClO4 + Lactose for their fuel basis. Most sources i've seen use oil-soluble dyes, but none has stated it's mandatory.

 

Another approach i've yet to try is separating colour and fuel grains, so the jet can cool down before hitting dye:

OTOH, I think one would need much more significant pressure reduction and cool-down path to achieve meaningful temperature drop. Using powdered, paraffin bound rcandy *might* reduce the jet temperature somewhat.

Edited June 18, 2015 by deer

[Ubehage]

None. Read up on it more. Rcandy burns too hot. Instead of evaporating / subliming the dye it just burns it up. If you pay attention, most you-tubers and other casual pyro's don't ever test this. They just mention you could add dye for colour, but dont demonstrate it (or the preparation process).

Most commercial colour smokes use KClO3, KClO4 + Lactose for their fuel basis. Most sources i've seen use oil-soluble dyes, but none has stated it's mandatory.

 

Another approach i've yet to try is separating colour and fuel grains, so the jet can cool down before hitting dye:

proposal.png

OTOH, I think one would need much more significant pressure reduction and cool-down path to achieve meaningful temperature drop. Using powdered, paraffin bound rcandy *might* reduce the jet temperature somewhat.

Parafdin is not enough

I also tried this alot, in my rcandy-days.

Only time I got it to produce colors, was when I used water to dampen the rcandy. Which also eliminated any rocketpower.

[deer]

Water ? How do you do that? Bubble trough it like a bong or what?

[schroedinger]

I think he meant he just used wet r-candy.

Indigo is a good starting dye and can be bought as hair coloring.

The type of dye you need is organic dye.

[mohammacl]

ok my main problem is what

 

None. Read up on it more. Rcandy burns too hot. Instead of evaporating / subliming the dye it just burns it up. If you pay attention, most you-tubers and other casual pyro's don't ever test this. They just mention you could add dye for colour, but don’t demonstrate it (or the preparation process).

Most commercial colour smokes use KClO3, KClO4 + Lactose for their fuel basis. Most sources i've seen use oil-soluble dyes, but none has stated it's mandatory.

 

Another approach i've yet to try is separating colour and fuel grains, so the jet can cool down before hitting dye:

proposal.png

OTOH, I think one would need much more significant pressure reduction and cool-down path to achieve meaningful temperature drop. Using powdered, paraffin bound rcandy *might* reduce the jet temperature somewhat.

yes my problem is what u mention here !

colors will burn or react with r-candy .

but we wont use base fuel-colors like lactose or something like this because its hard to make them !

just if sb test industrial coloring please tell me how it was and how i have to cook r-candy ! mostly i make r-candy by dissolving comps in water and boiling it ! this method produce more smoke !

anyway thanks all

Edited June 18, 2015 by mohammacl

[FlaMtnBkr]

That's why it isn't done and every rocket doesn't have a colored smoke trail. I personally don't think you could get enough smoke to see well from the amount of fuel in small hobby size engines.

 

If you want a smoke trail, try making a smoke and attaching it to the top and fuse it so it lights at or right before rocket ignition. I think you would need to use granulated smoke comp and a casing with multiple exit holes so a lot of smoke is produced in just a few seconds. If the smoke is produced at a 'normal' speed it will just be a thin wisp of smoke since rockets move so fast.

 

At least that's my opinion and what I would try.

[schroedinger]

Sorry but i got the feeling you didn't read carefully what was written above and you didn't check what the mentioned chemicals are!

 

E.g. lactose is milk sugar, you do not make it, you have to buy it from a grocery store. The dyes have to be bought too, i can tell you from experience, you do not want to make them. Dyes are one of the worst things you can make, specially if you go for triarylmethane dyes. Also it is way to expensive to make them.

 

Also you write industrial coloring, that is no classificatiin, that can be used here.

 

You need to categorize into:

Inorganic dye

-temperature resistant or not

 

Organic dye

- sublimates at high temp

-- decomposiotion temp

- Gets destructed at high temp

 

 

There are two ways to produce colored smoke.

First is, that the dye is produced during the reaction, like e.g. ammonia chloride or hexachloro benzene compositions. But nearly every comp i know of this type is/can be classed as c-weapon.

 

Only black smoke using naphtalene is commonly used pyro from this type of smoke (as far as i know of, an thats kind of a special system).

 

The common used way is the kclo3 + lactose to sublimate a organic dye.

For these possible dyes are e.g. triarylmethane, azo, indigo type or fluorones.

 

All these dyes are going to decompose in r-candy. So your only chance is to go with inorganic dyes, and disperse them in your smokw. But this won't give very rich colors. E.g. you could add ball milled ultramarine, or sodalith into your mix. To give some blue coloring stain.

[mohammacl]

Sorry but i got the feeling you didn't read carefully what was written above and you didn't check what the mentioned chemicals are!

 

E.g. lactose is milk sugar, you do not make it, you have to buy it from a grocery store. The dyes have to be bought too, i can tell you from experience, you do not want to make them. Dyes are one of the worst things you can make, specially if you go for triarylmethane dyes. Also it is way to expensive to make them.

 

Also you write industrial coloring, that is no classificatiin, that can be used here.

 

You need to categorize into:

Inorganic dye

-temperature resistant or not

 

Organic dye

- sublimates at high temp

-- decomposiotion temp

- Gets destructed at high temp

 

 

There are two ways to produce colored smoke.

First is, that the dye is produced during the reaction, like e.g. ammonia chloride or hexachloro benzene compositions. But nearly every comp i know of this type is/can be classed as c-weapon.

 

Only black smoke using naphtalene is commonly used pyro from this type of smoke (as far as i know of, an thats kind of a special system).

 

The common used way is the kclo3 + lactose to sublimate a organic dye.

For these possible dyes are e.g. triarylmethane, azo, indigo type or fluorones.

 

All these dyes are going to decompose in r-candy. So your only chance is to go with inorganic dyes, and disperse them in your smokw. But this won't give very rich colors. E.g. you could add ball milled ultramarine, or sodalith into your mix. To give some blue coloring stain.

ok i now got what u say but another problem !

KClO3 and KClO4 and all of type of chlorate and perchlorate is not available in iran because the government bought all of them in the whole country for security reasons ...

i will test dye with some type of r-candy to see how it works ..

thanks all again

[deer]

If you're stuck with rcandy only constructive, indirect approaches will produce coloured smoke. Any mixture will burn the dyes up or coat particulate pigments with dross.

 

You could try something like this:

While reducing rcandy intensity by adding baking soda as inhibitor (to make it burn slower = less instant heat produced) and sulphur as catalyst (to make it catch fire at lower temp).

 

Another approach would be ejecting non-burning powder like crushed coloured chalk:

In here you can buy pretty intense pigment for concrete colouring. This might work better in place of chalk and could resist the temps, since is made to provide colour as grains instead of dyeing concrete + sells in 25kg bags (but i'd ask for small sample to test first).

 

Mind you, this is all untested, so be careful and feel free to adjust for best result.

Edited June 19, 2015 by deer

[taiwanluthiers]

you can make potassium chlorate if it is legal to do so. It is easy enough to do.

[OblivionFall]

Speaking of using chlorate,

 

Do I just mix it, lactose and dye in the correct ratio? I heard that I need specific chemicals and I'm not sure where to buy them.

[deer]

I think it depends on the colour. I think that's just the minimum to get "burning colour powder". I've seen the following being added:

• Binder (E.g. thin NC lacquer),
• Sawdust (AFAIK for some smouldering, to ensure it doesn’t go out),
• Baking soda (or other fire inhibitor and acidity neutraliser)...etc

 

Here is one actual composition, with description on preparation (purple smoke, lower part of page 230): https://books.google.lv/books?id=SuzxAgAAQBAJ&lpg=PA211&ots=TfnBa7m1dC&dq=lead%20dioxide%20orange%20smoke&pg=PA230#v=onepage&q&f=false

[Mumbles]

Speaking of using chlorate,

 

Do I just mix it, lactose and dye in the correct ratio? I heard that I need specific chemicals and I'm not sure where to buy them.

 

 

Can you be more specific? Yes, you do just mix chlorate, lactose, and the dye in the proper proportions. Some people do use burn rate modifiers as Deer mentioned. Not all dyes work for this application though. There is some information on which ones work in books like Fireworks: The Art, Science, and Technique by Shimizu, and probably also in Pyrotechnics by Hardt. There is also a powerpoint presentation by Joseph Domanico around the internet.