effect with dragon eggs - how to do it

[kuglca]

Hi, can someone tells me how to do the effect with dragon eggs shown on video - link is below.

 

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix8uHBtxxcE

 

Thanks for reply

[GMetcalf]

It looks like a streamer star of some description with a dragon's egg as a core. Most likely the effect was created by rolling the streamer composition around a dragon's egg, however you can produce the same sort of effect by placing a dragon's egg into the middle of a lump of composition and pumping it.

Obviously the streamer composition would have to be water/dextrin based so as not to leach into the acetone/nitrocellulose based dragon's eggs.

[enanthate]

I have been wondering about the crackle-effects we see here. Can we add titanium to dragon eggs? Mine pop loud and nicely, but not with sparks like we see here (that looks quite like titanium).

[kuglca]

Exactly that. Mine pop loudly and nice but with not so much sparks. Is it possible that there is some layer of special composition with titanium on dragon eggs.

[FlaMtnBkr]

Add 5-10% titanium to the dragon egg comp. It has to be somewhat course, like in the 40-80 mesh range. Too fine will mess with the pop. You can also cover with a comp that has Ti in it and burns slow to make a hot slag that gets blown apart. I do the first because it is easy and looks good.

[FlaMtnBkr]

Also, that first effect are shells with metal streamer stars with dragon eggs mixed in. Those dragon eggs may have a comp rolled on top for the sparks to add to the delay. For a comp check out Jopetes' pdf file that gives a formula.

[kuglca]

Great. Thanks for the informations FlaMtnBkr. I will try with Ti in dragon egs composition.

[enanthate]

Also, that first effect are shells with metal streamer stars with dragon eggs mixed in. Those dragon eggs may have a comp rolled on top for the sparks to add to the delay. For a comp check out Jopetes' pdf file that gives a formula.

Are you sure those are not cores? If you follow one star, you will see it turns into a glowing core that explodes.

[pyrokid]

Those look like streamer comp with dragon eggs as the core.

 

It's cool that adding coarse Ti to the DE comp will give this effect. I always thought that you needed the outer slag comp to get the sparks.

[FlaMtnBkr]

No, I'm not positive. I'm on a phone so the screen isn't huge. But it looks like most of the stars go off the screen before they go out, yet many of the dragon eggs look to go off on screen. Maybe there are a lot more that aren't caught by the camera or I'm just seeing things wrong on this little screen? I can see the glow of some of the dragon eggs which would get tossed out but not as far.

 

The effect could be done either way and likely not look very different in small jumble filled cake inserts.

[Rocketier]

It's what I wrote about in de dragon egg discussion.

I make those kind of stars. First make a dragon egg, then prime it, then roll over the spark compo with Ti ( smoulder fase), Then roll over for instance a willow white composition. The sparks on the movie have the same result as mine. All compositions I used where from the Jopettes pdf.

 

Link to discussion

Edited April 24, 2015 by Rocketier

[kuglca]

I have one more question. In JOPETES pdf file, he wrote that we need black iron oxide in composition for first prime. I don´t have it, so my question is, can I substitute black iron oxide (Fe3O4) with red iron oxide (Fe2O3) or with silicone?

[JOPETES]

Hello Kuglca.
The composition is seen in the video is simply is simply a chrysanthemum composition or tiger tail with titanium and end with the explosion of a core cracker shaped flower. I sent an accompanying drawing of how you have to do the whole star.

 

You can substitute black iron oxide by red iron oxide, no problem.

[marks265]

Hello Kuglca.

The composition is seen in the video is simply is simply a chrysanthemum composition or tiger tail with titanium and end with the explosion of a core cracker shaped flower. I sent an accompanying drawing of how you have to do the whole star.

 

You can substitute black iron oxide by red iron oxide, no problem.

Hi Jopetes,

 

So what is final diameter of the star in your drawing? I am imagining any size could possibly work and that the chrysanthemum formula could control star size. Thoughts?

 

Mark

[JOPETES]

Hi Jopetes,

 

So what is final diameter of the star in your drawing? I am imagining any size could possibly work and that the chrysanthemum formula could control star size. Thoughts?

 

Mark

If correct, you can use smaller or larger in the composition of the chrysanthemum, tiger tail, white pearl, kamuro etc, etc, for more or less bright tail length but the sizes of the layers of priming and core cracker They must be those described in the accompanying drawing.

[asdercks]

I have been wondering about the crackle-effects we see here. Can we add titanium to dragon eggs? Mine pop loud and nicely, but not with sparks like we see here (that looks quite like titanium).

Yes you can add titanium to de dragon eggs comp, that is how you make the effect on the video, you'll also need to have a smoulder composition rolled over the dragon eggs

[Livingston]

Has anybody had luck with getting Dragon Egg cores round??

[burningRNX]

I had that luck yes, by rolling on spark compo and priming, starting with cut stars.

 

if you would have cut eggs round, you can try to spray a bit acetone to soften the core's without adding composition, but I think its difficult.

 

The other option is rolling them from the beginning, obviously the will be round then, for that use the link Rocketier provided a couple posts up.

Edited August 9, 2015 by burningRNX

[Mumbles]

I prefer the appearance of the slaggy delay layer with Ti as opposed to just adding Ti to the dragon egg itself. It's fluffier and fills the sky better.

 

If you process the cores somewhat like Mike Swisher's polverone method (multiple screenings), they come out relatively round. With priming or a delay layer they come out fairly round.

[schroedinger]

I prefer the appearance of the slaggy delay layer with Ti as opposed to just adding Ti to the dragon egg itself. It's fluffier and fills the sky better.

 

If you process the cores somewhat like Mike Swisher's polverone method (multiple screenings), they come out relatively round. With priming or a delay layer they come out fairly round.

Mumbles can you shine some light on that method? All i ever saw from him where cut DE.

[Mumbles]

Certainly. This is an excerpt from Mike Swisher's full polverone description just to illustrate what I'm talking about. http://groups.google.com/group/rec.pyrotechnics/browse_thread/thread/c6d3b1a4f4fbea6a/35988b9b6f88618c?hl=en&q=mike+swisher+polverone+snowball#35988b9b6f88618c

 

There are some differences of course. Namely that you need to work a little faster, and you use NC lacquer at room temperature instead of water. I've always found that using a solvent mixture containing some solvents less volatile than acetone like xylene or actual lacquer thinner to help keep things workable longer. Add enough NC lacquer to make it kind of soupy. Getting the right amount of NC is important, and tends to look overwet at first depending on your weight percentage. You have to stir and work it until it begins to thicken up.

 

It's hard to describe the right consistency, but when it becomes to become solid again, granulate through a screen. Probably something in the 8 to 12 mesh region. Once it passes, it will probably be fairly worm like. Scoop the granules and worms back on the screen and roll and granulate it back through. You can let it sit on paper or a tray for a few minutes between screenings to let things dry out if needed between screenings. Repeat as necessary until the granules are mostly rounded off and don't seem to be sticking together. You can spray with a little more solvent if they become too dry. Let them completely dry, and grade the granules into the size you need. Anything too small can be re-processed with more solvent. I prefer to do the same with too large of granules. It makes me somewhat uneasy to crush dragon eggs.

 

.........

 

Put the composition into one of the wash tubs. When the water has come to a
rolling boil, pour all but a little bit of it onto the composition and stir with
a stick. The dissolution of saltpetre is profoundly endothermic and the damp
composition will soon be cool enough to work with the hands. Blend the water in
as thoroughly as you can with your hands.

Make some of it into a "black snowball" about big enough to hold in both hands.
Place the granulating screen over the second wash tub and rub this ball of
composition over the screen, pressing it down firmly as you rub, causing the
granules to fall into the wash tub. When done with the first ball, make another
and continue till all of it has been granulated into the tub. Now place the
granulating screen over the first, now empty, tub. Using the scoop, pick up and
put some of the previously granulated composition onto the screen and shake/rub
it through. Continue till it has all been granulated back into this tub. When
complete, re-granulate a third time into the tub just emptied.

The purpose of this repeated granulation is first, to distribute the water
evenly through the mix, and secondly, to aerate and cool the mix. You will note
each time you pass the granules through the screen, they become dryer on the
surface and less prone to stick together. This is partially the consequence of
drying, but also partially because as the temperature of the water falls, the
saltpetre goes out of solution.

Finally, granulate a fourth time onto the paper-lined trays. A batch this size
will fill five or six trays with a thin layer of polverone. Don't make it too
deep, as this will interfere with drying.

Let the trays stand in the sun and the breeze for half an hour to 40 min. You
can check drying by lifting up a corner of the kraft liner in a tray, and see if
the granules flow more-or-less freely or if they are prone to stick to the
liner. When they flow more or less freely, it's time to re-granulate one last
time onto fresh, dry, liners. If this is done right the liners onto which the
polverone was first granulated will hardly be soiled - just damp. They can be
saved, dried out, and turned over to use another time.

 

..........

[schroedinger]

Thank you Mumbles.

 

Also one other question i have, i remeber once reading that lead nitrate can be used in DE's, does somebody know anything about that?

[PIL]

Thank you Mumbles.

 

Also one other question i have, i remeber once reading that lead nitrate can be used in DE's, does somebody know anything about that?

I think it's not a safe substitution. In aqueous solution Pb(II) oxidizes magnalium quickly and forms lead. The reaction is exothermic. Another product is magnesium nitrate,which is extremely hygroscopic.Even though NC laquer is used， moisture may attack the dragon eggs. Very similar to AP and uncoated magnesium