Sufur free bp?

[MWJ]

I just looked into getting some 2Fg bp and I saw that some of it was sulfur free. why would they make Sulfur free bp?

I have made several pounds but I haven't tested it with a baseball for lift yet. I was just wondering why, and how and what if any would they sub. sulfur with?

 

Is this something new that they do with bp now?

 

Thanks guys
Mike

[Maserface]

Is it black powder? or a black powder substitute?

[Mumbles]

It sounds like you may have a substitute. The sulfur-free stuff tends to reduce fouling inside of firearms. If it's still actual blackpowder, it may be alright though slower. If it's a substitute, it will probably not be very useful. The substitutes require the chamber pressures of a firearm to function, and we don't really get anywhere close to achieving those in shells or mortars.

[MWJ]

It could be a substitute I guess. I asked for bp and it was about $7.00 more then the reg. bp. Has this substitute been around long? I never heard of it before but then again I haven't been looking either.

 

Thanks

[Arthur]

Sulphurless BP has been around for centuries. Supposedly it's used for touch hole primes. The lack of sulphur means the fumes don't make sulphuric acid gasses and erode holes that should be well finished.

 

It's also harder to ignite.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Arthur

[MWJ]

Sulphurless BP has been around for centuries. Supposedly it's used for touch hole primes. The lack of sulphur means the fumes don't make sulphuric acid gasses and erode holes that should be well finished.

 

It's also harder to ignite.

I just didn't know why they would sell it if it's not the quality of the reg. bp. It even cost's more.

 

I guess I'll just have to get off of my behind and do my Base ball test with my own bp. I have several different types. Now that the weather is getting nicer I have more to do on my ranch.

Edited March 13, 2015 by MWJ

[Shunt]

It sounds like you may have a substitute. The sulfur-free stuff tends to reduce fouling inside of firearms. If it's still actual blackpowder, it may be alright though slower. If it's a substitute, it will probably not be very useful. The substitutes require the chamber pressures of a firearm to function, and we don't really get anywhere close to achieving those in shells or mortars.

 

From what my local gun dealers told me, they no longer sell "real" BP due to the high cost of HAZMAT shipping + it has to be stored in ATFE approved magazines. The subsitutes according to the the muzzleloader guys I talk to changes from year to year like 1.4 consumer fireworks. Some even have perchlorates in the mix.

 

Read this if you want to be sucked down into the drain of google and endless research.... http://www.chuckhawks.com/difference_black_powders.htm

 

For pyro, just read the threads on this forum, learn to make charcoal, get busy and make some real BP that does what you want it to do, then strive for consistent results when you do it again. It has been said time and time again on this forum and all the others, If you can't make good BP, you are not ready to go to the next level. No disrespect to you as my comment may seem harsh, but it took me 2 years of work to get to the place where i could do this, and I still have a lot to learn

[Sparx88]

Sulfurless bp is faster than traditional bp. By as much as 1000 meters per second in detonation velocity. But, is not as powerful due to drastically reduced gaseous emissions. I make my bp with a little less sulfur and the addition of another fuel/binder to give me the sweet spot.

Reduce the sulfur by half and split the difference to the charcoal and kno3 with no binder to start.

[Stef727]

Sulfurless bp is faster than traditional bp. By as much as 1000 meters per second in detonation velocity. But, is not as powerful due to drastically reduced gaseous emissions. I make my bp with a little less sulfur and the addition of another fuel/binder to give me the sweet spot.

Reduce the sulfur by half and split the difference to the charcoal and kno3 with no binder to start.

what is the formula for sulfurless?

 

I found a few on the internet made with sugar but thats prob not what you are using.

[Sparx88]

80/20 for ball milling.

[Mumbles]

I'd be interested in any sources describing the greatly increased burn rate of sulfurless BP.

[dagabu]

"RATIO:

Saltpeter: 85%

Charcoal: 15%

This is similar to the German formulation for Cocoa Powder"

I too would like to see some documentation on this.

[Sparx88]

I'm surprised at that but here

http://www.amazon.com/FMX-Revised-Black-Field-Manufactured-Explosives/dp/0873648536

 

If you don't already have it I would recomend it. It lists Standard black powder at 500 m/s max. And Sulfurless at 1500 m/s max. And say the same thing I said above. Not word for word but the same. I would'nt just throw out info like that willy nilly. I hope that helps. I made all 3 types listed in there and it's true, the sulfurless is faster...but not great for lift or BP rifles. Though less fouling is true, it's not enough to make me sacrifice the power of standard for less patches during cleaning. It takes dang near 1/3 more to equal standard on a .50 cal chrono'd. So, faster is'nt always better. And thats something I have come to fully realize since being a member here

[Mumbles]

Thanks for the source. I have however always found that source to be rather dubious. Some of the other information in the book is also rather questionable. I don't have it currently available, but my recollection is that is really only describes the CIA method. I've never made sulfur-less BP in an analogous manner to normal BP, so I really can't offer any practical experience or support for my position though.

 

I've seen all sort of quoted burn speed figures. I've seen it all the way from about 400m/s up to over 2600m/s. This source lists values of both 2680m/s and mentions another measurement from another paper of 1350m/s. http://www.osti.gov/scitech/servlets/purl/113860 This is one of the first times I've seen sulfurless quoted as significantly faster though. With the pressure dependence of BP, I'm not surprised that there are values all over the place.

[Sparx88]

Your right, it is the CIA or cooked method but even using the ratios and ball milling gives good results as the recipe for standard in the book is 7.8/1.5/1.0 -78/15/10. The extra nitrate to make up for lost kno3 during filtering. Kind of a pita way to do it and to me does'nt really make anything better. But I have to say, doing it by that book, and doing it the way I do it normal, lower sulfur content does speed it up. But you have to give the difference back to the ccoal and kno3. Thats what I get anyway. It makes more noise with a sharper crack in the cannon but does'nt "push" as good.

[pyrohacker]

Greetings every one! I live in a country were getting sulfur is not so easy so it's hard to make some BP. I've been trying to make some BP for shell lifting but my formula was as follows: KNO3 75%, Charcoal 15% and replaced the Sulfur with Red Iron Oxide 10%. I saw in http://www.skylighter.com/ a formula that involves Red Iron Oxide for making Sugar Rocket Mix and tough about replacing it could work for me . I tested it but had to make harder lift cups and tight shells to fit into the mortar because it's a little slower than the original formula, such a way not to let escape the gas generated and take advantage of all of it. Any ideas if Sulfur % can be replaced with Red Iron Oxide and the exact formula to make it work good for lifts? Any help would be very appreciated. Thanks!

[NeighborJ]

That's a tough one pyrohacker, if I had to wing a substitute for sulfer it would likely be RIO catylized powdered sugar. Mabe try 70-KNO3, 15-charcoal, 12-sugar and 3-RIO. This is a guess.

No Dextrin should be needed because the sugar should act as a binder. The purpose of sulfer is to lower the ignition temp and speed up the combustion process. It will not be nearly as fast as hot BP but it may be just fast enough.

Other possible substitute for sulfer could be antimony trisulfide. But I'm sure there may be others who can direct you to some other replacements.

[dave321]

how about potassium benzoate instead of sulphur

 

or even thio urea which has sulphur bound in the molecule

[Arthur]

Sulphurless powder exists purely because cannon users and touch hole primers like low sulphur comps because they erode the precision holes more gently. They are harder to light (sulphur lowers the ignition temperature).

[pyrohacker]

My sulfur free formula is: KNO3 @74%, Charcoal @15%, Iron Oxide @10% and Dextrin @5%.

[Mumbles]

Why is there so much iron oxide? I've seen more than one person claim it's a substitute for sulfur. It's not.

[Arthur]

The whole point of sulphurless BP is that it doesn't make sulphur based acid gasses that corrode the firing channels of BP guns. - the touch pan and touch holes being the most significant.

[MrB]

Why is there so much iron oxide? I've seen more than one person claim it's a substitute for sulfur. It's not.

 

Sparks mate, sparks.

 

Joking aside, no idea really. It just slows it down, and makes it harder to light. Perhaps it's intended for rocket fuel?

B!

[pyrohacker]

Why is there so much iron oxide? I've seen more than one person claim it's a substitute for sulfur. It's not.

Because if there's a little amount used it doesn't perform as good as it should. The more you add the better it gets. It's a sulfur substitute, a catalyzer.

Edited December 30, 2016 by pyrohacker

[Mumbles]

It is absolutely not a sulfur substitute. That is something you're inventing on your own, or gleaning from poor resources. Sulfur is a fuel. Iron oxide is not. I'm not sure what more there is to say than that.

 

I suspect your issues with more conventional formulas is more indicative of your materials or process.