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Dragon eggs with neither bismuth nor lead compounds


mabuse00

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Just stumbled upon this:






http://www.fireworksrawmaterials.com/chemicals.html

So a "Special" Magnalium and a "Magic Powder"...

Is there some information out there? Maybe some claims of chinese formulas based on CuO have a grain of thruth in them?
Maybe just a special ratio of Mg/Al apart from 50/50?

 

 

Some thoughts:

 

I also once did some tests using the Electric Yellow formula:
Potassium perchlorate 45
Cryolite 13
Magnalium (200 mesh) 30
PVC 5
Charcoal (airfloat) 2
Dextrin 5

Cryolithe seems to be the critical ingredient. The stars make a distinct agressive sizzling sound. I hoped to achieve something like a dragon egg matrix comet by using larger MgAl.

Using 60mesh MgAl the sound improves, but the star becomes very hard to ignite. Using still larger MgAl unfortunately did not improve the sound further.

A similar effect can be seen when a blob of Monocapa prime is ignited on the ground, it throws sparks that explode with a faint crackle.

 

So there are ways... thats nothing new...

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Just stumbled upon this:

 

 

 

http://www.fireworksrawmaterials.com/chemicals.html

 

So a "Special" Magnalium and a "Magic Powder"...

 

Is there some information out there? Maybe some claims of chinese formulas based on CuO have a grain of thruth in them?

Maybe just a special ratio of Mg/Al apart from 50/50?

 

 

Some thoughts:

 

I also once did some tests using the Electric Yellow formula:

Potassium perchlorate 45

Cryolite 13

Magnalium (200 mesh) 30

PVC 5

Charcoal (airfloat) 2

Dextrin 5

 

Cryolithe seems to be the critical ingredient. The stars make a distinct agressive sizzling sound. I hoped to achieve something like a dragon egg matrix comet by using larger MgAl.

 

Using 60mesh MgAl the sound improves, but the star becomes very hard to ignite. Using still larger MgAl unfortunately did not improve the sound further.

 

A similar effect can be seen when a blob of Monocapa prime is ignited on the ground, it throws sparks that explode with a faint crackle.

 

So there are ways... thats nothing new...

I just noticed PVC in the formula, and that stopped me right there.

I have read that PVC is prone to accumulate static charges, and is considered undesirable to Work with by many pyro's.. (That's what I have read - I have no clue! ;) )

 

Based on that, I wouldn't want to mix it in with explosives.

Edited by Ubehage
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It does tend to be staticy, but I've never heard of it causing any issues in a composition. The real danger is from using PVC pipe for basically anything. Ground up pure PVC isn't really an issue.

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I don't think cryolite has anything to do with the sizzle in that formula. Almost every formula that uses a lot of MgAl, especially larger particle size, likes to sizzle when it burns. Add 30% to plain BP and I bet it sizzles the same.

 

Why did you think cryolite has something to do with the sound.

 

I would be curious to contact that company with some questions. How expensive? Can they be tuned? Are they as loud as bismuth eggs? They may have gotten something to pop but I doubt it performs anywhere close to good bismuth eggs.

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Mentioning Electric Yellow and Monocapa was some sort of public brainstorming ;)

 

 

Almost every formula that uses a lot of MgAl, especially larger particle size, likes to sizzle when it burns. Add 30% to plain BP and I bet it sizzles the same.

I agree. But some do so more than others. W20 or also the C8+MgAl I posted in the compositions section do sizzle.

But you cannot compare it to the Electric Yellow. The sizzles more agressive and more or less directly in or around the flame, without any delay.

The others show some kind of glitter reaction, and I expect Plain BP + MgAl to do the same.

 

Why did you think cryolite has something to do with the sound.

 

Because I tested same formula with sodium carbonate and it burns without the agressive sizzling, like any other perchlorate star.

 

 

 

Even if they are not as load as bismuth or lead they might be useful. Especially for people who live in countries where raw materials are hard to get, but stuff like harmless CuO can be had from a pottery supplier.

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After reading what I wrote again I just want to mention that I wasn't trying to argue. I really was curious why you thought cryolite had something to do with the sound.

 

And it would be great if just MgAl and BCO would make some type of Dragon egg effect. But I was talking about the stuff the company in those videos is selling since we have no idea what is actually in the mix they are selling.

 

I've thought for a while that the Chinese have found another formula that works without expensive bismuth or banned in the US lead, since the effect is so prolific.

 

But I have experimented with the MgAl and BCO and didn't get more than a bright flash of light that had no sound. If someone figures it out it will be a very popular formula.

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I really don't think you could get CuO/MgAl to make loud pops like that. It could very well be made with a chemical that is not known to the pyro community, something that acts similar to the other chems.

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  • 1 month later...

Much as I dislike - as a newcomer - disagreeing with members of long standing, it really is possible.

 

A colleague and I have been examining a Chinese sample that does, indeed, contain CuO and Mg/Al as its main constituents, with no lead or bismuth compounds and no NC lacquer. We are working on reproducing the effect and have had some degree of success, as this video shows: https://youtu.be/I_OtCiC46EM.

 

It is probably true that such formulas won't be able to match the loudest reports that you can get with lead or bismuth, but they appear to be usable - and are both non-toxic and cheap to make.

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  • 3 weeks later...

The answer is chemistry. I'm not an expert, but look at the periodic table. Lead and Bismuth have the same properties, and they're standing next to eachother.

The logic of the periodic table is that elements standing close to eachoter have not so different properties. Surely elements of the same group tend to have the same properties...

So maybe they used something based on antimony ?

 

I don't know, but we should try to search by the chemical properties of metals, and not by guessing.

 

The first stap is to write down all the chemical reactions that take place in dragon eggs, I can't find them anywere...

Edited by Andres1511
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Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought it was possible to substitute Lead Tetraoxide for Antimony Trioxide in Dragon's Egg formulae and achieve the same results. In the same way as Bismuth compounds can be used 1:1 to substitute Lead Tetraoxide.

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Mike, could you maybe give us a bit of info on what has been discovered?

 

I tried registering and still haven't gotten access after a few days.

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The end of discussion where two different things.

First formula 7/7/5 (Bi2O3/Sb2O3 7:3) ratio)/CuO/Magnallium.

 

The other where using a normal DE formula (like USA's) and fully subbing the Bi2O3 with an other oxide.

 

Also mentioned got Lancaster Microstars:

 

Ba nitrate 40
Magnalium 40
Sulfur 20
or
Strontium nitrate 30
Magnalium 40
Sulfur 30

 

They glow for about 0.5 seconds and according to lancaster give a flash and pop if mixed into fountain mix.

Edited by Mike
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Me three.

Pottery suppliers here in the UK have Antimony Trioxide and Tin Dioxide for fairly cheap prices. When I have some time I'll have an experiment and see what happens if I substitute them into a classical Lead Tetraoxide formula.

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I sent an email and got one later saying I had been approved. Thirty mins later I got another questioning my intentions for joining. When I went to log on there was no record of my user name and my account had been deleted.

 

No wonder they only have 37 members. Why would you waste your time creating the website and then not let people join? And waste the time of the few members there are by having a dead, empty forum.

 

Oh well.

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From being a member... Its not anywhere as diverse as this site. It is good for us local australians to discuss our stuff... But limited on info/discussions. I have limited my logon to once a month if that, and nothing has really changed. For what its worth... Not missing much. I do like every one one the site, and have had great discussions with a number of members.. But I think our Australian pyro population size is very limited.....side note this is a site that has replaced the TrueBlue site when that no longer continued.
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Thanks for the info. I got another email and it sounds like the guy made a mistake while trying to approve my account. I guess they have a problem with spammers and most new accounts are never approved. So if you are interested in becoming a member send an email after registering.
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Well astro does a good job at pyrolife to keep spammers out. Since day 1 everyone wishing to join gets a little chat by e-mail before being allowed to join. It is a very nice but small community atm.

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  • 2 months later...

Richard. Did you make these? If so, with what formula?

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  • 1 month later...
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