Public fireworks regulations != safety

[Ubehage]

Hello, and happy new year to all my fellow pyro-enthusiasts here!

 

I want to start a debate, and get a lot of your views/opinions, on the subject of regulations and safety. Because I personally do not feel that those go hand-in-hand.

 

Here in Denmark, we had a fireworks-factory blow up 10 years ago.

That particular factory had violated a dozen rules, and also kept almost twice the amount of HE that they were allowed to... Nevertheless, a state of panic and stupidity went over the country, and into our politics. Spawning a lot of regulations, and prohibitions for everybody.

 

Long story short: What we, the regular consumers, are left with, are rockets with 75g of lift+load, and batteries with no more than 1.5kg of content.

And those are the BIG items, that will cost $100 or more... A major setback for all pyro-lovers!

The regular stuff, that mr. & mrs. Everybody will buy, is what I consider kids' fireworks.

 

Needless to say, people have imported a lot of fireworks. This year, we had another regulation, which just caused even more import.

That, together with the fact, that pyrotechnics also seems to be going through a time of innovation, making everything bigger and cheaper.

So, stuff has been illegally imported, on a big scale throughout the country.

 

This NY's eve, we had 3 deaths caused directly by fireworks being much stronger than expected, and idiots who didn't know what they were doing.

 

Now, here comes my point of view, and what I would like you to debate:

 

Prohibitions do not work, in my world. If there is a way around them, they will never have an effect. Maybe thery will even have the exact opposite effect.

I think better information should be given, already to kids. Teach them the basics of handling fireworks and enjoy it without getting burned or losing a finger.

For old kids and adults, you should not give, but provide easy access to, even more information. Open the door to pyrotechnics, if they have that desire.

Once that is in place, you can legalize everything. Give people full freedom, with full responsibility.

[gregh]

I don't think the general population has the ability to safely "play" with all fireworks. Even if the safety information is available, most will ignore or disregard. Think how many people get hurt with consumer crackers and shells; now give them a six incher or a four inch salute... Natural selection will start thinning the herd rapidly.

[MrB]

Long story short: What we, the regular consumers, are left with, are rockets with 75g of lift+load, and batteries with no more than 1.5kg of content.

On the other side of the water, here in Sweden, it's 75gr for rockets, and 1 kilo for consumer firework batteries. Max 2" shell size i believe.

 

now give them a six incher or a four inch salute... Natural selection will start thinning the herd rapidly.

Thats what happened over there in Denmark. A father and son somehow got killed before they even managed to put a 6" shell in the mortar. I'm just guessing here, but they probably thought it was inconvenient to light the fuse o f the shell when it was IN the mortar. Aaaaand. Quickmatch. Just saying.

B!

[pyroman2498]

in my opinion let natural selection start, if people want to be stupid let them be stupid, that in returns means less stupid people .... simple equation is

Stupid person + non-consumer firework = no more stupid person

the only bad thing about this is that other people will be hurt in the process of the stupid people being eliminated ... so that's the only down side I see ....

[Arthur]

There is a fine line between prohibition (which the Americans didn't find good for alcohol in the '20s) and total freedom. Most countries find ways of reducing the risk but no-one gets it right by Our standards (on here). Remember that this is a forum for people who like fireworks and have well over the average knowledge of the making and safe use of fireworks.

[nater]

I know I have the unpopular opinion, but I also feel like the general public has proven to be unable to use pyro safely. In the U.S., legal consumer rockets are small, cakes are limited to 500g and shells are ~ 2". The only regulation I would like to see changes is the flash limit. I feel reports would be safe enough if they were increased to 1 g in size.

[calebkessinger]

Before 9-11 I had friends that would just pay the small price to get their permit and go buy a thousand bucks worth of real fireworks. They never really bought salutes just 3in. and 4 in mostly I think. We would go down to the ball field in our little town and they would be out about second base with flares taped to sticks lighting the crap out of em. I think they wore their volunteer fire gear. and we never really gave one thought about safety. Nothing bad ever happened and the only thing that stopped him from continuing doing it was the cost of the shells went up quite a bit i believe.

They really didn't need to crack down for us country folk. Most of us were smart enough not to get on the business end of a gun and that transfers right over to fireworks quite well.

On a side note, fifteen years before our little town used to put on a fireworks show every year ( with pro's) till one of them lost an arm. ( or at least that was the story, I was so young it was one of those things you think you remember but wonder if it was true. ) Now seeing what a big shell can do it's not hard to believe.

It was a good time growing up in rural Kansas. Had a small town fair. with carnival, rodeo, and fireworks, CRAP!! that was a long time ago..... now I feel old.

[taiwanluthiers]

Problem with Kansas is the tornado...

[Bobosan]

Problem with Kansas is the tornado...

 

Yeah, tell that to Dorothy and Toto.

[mikeee]

Tornado's not a major problem in Kansas, its all the rolling hills and winding roads.

[calebkessinger]

Well, there were a few hills where I grew up.. Flint hills. south east of Wichita about 70 miles

And a few tornado's

Ok, Their was a bunch that year Andover and the air force base got hit. We had lots farm houses destroyed all over the place. It's like the tornado's followed the roads for miles. There use to be trees on every fence line it took miles and miles of telephone poles and fence rows out. Darnest thing you ever saw.

100 mph straight winds not too uncommon.

[Ubehage]

100 mph straight winds not too uncommon.

Here, 30mph is extraordinary. And I think the strongest wind ever recorded, was a short blow of 150-170mph.

[mikeee]

Caleb,

 

I was just joking about the rolling hills in Kansas, have driven across Kansas on numerous occasions, most of it is pretty flat.

Nice for growing acres upon acres of wheat. Every summer I get to look forward to acres upon acres of corn fields with high humidity.

 

Back to the topic. we will always have people that won't read instructions or follow them, maybe we should issue fireworks permits for

the general public before they are allowed to purchase fireworks. They would have to attend a safety class dealing with fireworks and the proper

safety precautions to be followed when igniting them. Even after you do that, you will still have a number of accidents occur. You have to admit

that people do stupid things (drinking helps) and a large percentage of our population has no common sense anymore.

[Bobosan]

Caleb,

 

I was just joking about the rolling hills in Kansas, have driven across Kansas on numerous occasions, most of it is pretty flat.

Nice for growing acres upon acres of wheat. Every summer I get to look forward to acres upon acres of corn fields with high humidity.

 

Back to the topic. we will always have people that won't read instructions or follow them, maybe we should issue fireworks permits for

the general public before they are allowed to purchase fireworks. They would have to attend a safety class dealing with fireworks and the proper

safety precautions to be followed when igniting them. Even after you do that, you will still have a number of accidents occur. You have to admit

that people do stupid things (drinking helps) and a large percentage of our population has no common sense anymore.

 

+1 The government will protect those people with no common sense by banning all fireworks. Already happening.

 

I say let Darwin take care of the problem people.

 

Speaking of Darwin, did anyone notice this event from down under?

 

http://www.couriermail.com.au/business/darwin-man-blows-up-atm-explosion-knocks-him-off-his-feet/story-fnihph6m-1227170134604?nk=3d73371acf267a532f9f008be6cd268c

[gregh]

Bob, that works fine to let them weed themselves out with consumer fireworks, but when they start playing with anything bigger, they start killing off innocent bystanders as well...

 

Of course, one could say, they should have known better than to stand next to drunk bubba, lightin' the quickmatch on the six incher in his hand...

 

No offense to those on here named Bubba.

[taiwanluthiers]

Wasn't there that video where some idiot lit the quickmatch and caused the shell to go off immediately? Good thing no one was on top of the gun and that it was in the gun. I can see why reloadable mortar kits aren't allowed in some places. Not everyone knows that they're supposed to be inside the tube.

[MrB]

Wasn't there that video where some idiot lit the quickmatch and caused the shell to go off immediately? Good thing no one was on top of the gun and that it was in the gun. I can see why reloadable mortar kits aren't allowed in some places. Not everyone knows that they're supposed to be inside the tube.

As i said before. Thats most likely what happened in Denmark, Father and son got killed by a 6" shell going of outside the mortar. Details are scares at best, over here in Sweden, perhaps someone else can shine some light on the matter.

B!

[WonderBoy]

Tornadoes, pshh, no big deal

 

http://i.imgur.com/mdsO8zd.gif

 

 

 

On this issue though, I have a similar view as Uber and Nater. An uneducated population really shouldn't be using commercial fireworks that they don't know how to use. If everyone were educated in how they worked and how to use them properly, then sure everybody should be able to use what they want. But realistically, only people involved in fireworks know how they work, or how something like quickmatch works. Think about any time you had a conversation with someone where it came up that you make fireworks; how do you answer that to a layperson? "Well uh, I mix some chemicals, make them into stars, you know, the things that make the dots of color in the sky, then put them in a paper casing, maybe the size of a baseball, and and shoot it into the air." Most people have no idea how fireworks work, it's not always just "stupid people" blowing themselves up.

 

Slight tangent, but coming back to Kansas. I went to High School in good old conservative Kansas, and was taught "abstinence only" sex education. This was actually my first thought reading the original post hah. It's the ridiculous idea that if you only tell them not to have sex, then they won't do it. But if you tell them how to do it safely, then they're going to fuck like rabbits. Obviously, withholding information does not keep high school kids from having sex, it just keeps them from being provided the knowledge on how to do so in a safe manner.

 

I think fireworks can fall in a similar vein in that people will find a way to shoot fireworks, so education is key. Even with just consumer fireworks, people can be seriously injured.

 

tl;dr I don't have a solution in mind, and I am not suggesting we be a nanny state about it. This was mainly just a long winded way of saying that there is a lack of knowledge amongst most people regarding fireworks, and it can lead to their misuse and injury.

 

 

 

WB

Edited January 5, 2015 by WonderBoy

[calebkessinger]

The cost for education is usually high no matter what you are learning. Ignorance is hardly every bliss.

Today's society has no time or will to become educated, they are too busy watching tv

[gregh]

One thing I have never understood is that instruction and training are required to become a licensed operator, yet anyone with access to an approved storage magazine, a clean record, and a few bucks can get an ATF explosive license. Shouldn't there be some sort of test for that as well?

[stix]

 

+1 The government will protect those people with no common sense by banning all fireworks. Already happening.

 

I say let Darwin take care of the problem people.

 

Speaking of Darwin, did anyone notice this event from down under?

 

http://www.couriermail.com.au/business/darwin-man-blows-up-atm-explosion-knocks-him-off-his-feet/story-fnihph6m-1227170134604?nk=3d73371acf267a532f9f008be6cd268c

 

Already happening?... It's been happening here in Oz for the last 15yrs or more.

 

Yes, I did see that on the local news. A typical example of some moron with a little bit of knowledge, combined with a greedy motive that almost ended his days.

 

Although I think that education is a good thing, I doubt whether even the combined knowledge and wisdom of "The Library of Alexandria + NASA" would ever help that sort of individual.

 

To have knowledge, is to at least understand and accept that you don't have enough of it, and then learn and move on, and perhaps add to it.

 

Cheers.