Kitchen Sink Blue

[AzoMittle]

Made by John Steinberg

 

AP 34.6
KP 33.6
Copper Carbonate 8.4
Red Gum 5.9
Hexamine 4
Dextrin 4
Parlon 3
Copper Benzoate 3
Dechlorane 1
Black CuO 2.5

[Carbon796]

?

[schroedinger]

Any pictures or videos of that comp?

Which advance does it have compared to full Kp or Ap formulas? (Exept maybe for the price in case of full ap)

Any special reason for using dechlorane and parlon?

[AzoMittle]

Any pictures or videos of that comp?

No, I unfortunately do no have any pictures or videos. I was looking for this formula for personal use and couldn't find it publicly available (only in an old old PGI bulletin) so I figured I would share once I did find it.

 

From my understanding the formula isn't meant to be practical, hence the name "kitchen sink" and 10 ingredients. It is supposed to give a good saturated blue, I have not tested this myself.

 

Which advance does it have compared to full Kp or Ap formulas? (Exept maybe for the price in case of full ap)

Any special reason for using dechlorane and parlon?

 

I don't know exactly what John was thinking when he made the comp but I'll take a guess, just realize this is speculation:

 

It seems to me the idea was to take a basic organic blue and double up on certain components to get mixed effects. For example, we have both KP and AP, I would guess that part of the reason for using a mixture is to improve ignition, dilute costs (as you said), and possibly to push into the lilac color spectrum slightly.

 

What I find really odd is how little copper compounds there are in this, instead we have a 3-part color adding up to 13.9%. Why those specific copper compounds I cannot say, they do seem to be on the oxygen rich side of things though (-CO3, -CO2, -O respectively); I have found however that some colors look better with a mixture of color emitters, for example red from both Strontium nitrate and Strontium Carbonate looks nicer to me than either alone.

 

The hexamine is a flame envelope expander and cools the flame. The dextrin is a binder and doubles as a fuel. The parlon is a binder and doubles as a chlorine donor. The red gum is acting as a low temperature fuel and doubles as a binder. Each binder has its own advantages and drawbacks, this is the cocktail approach.

 

The dechlorane is a strong chlorine donor, it is most likely used because John only had 1-2% of the composition available to change, the dechlorane is a dense source of chlorine.

 

Roughly

=======

Oxidizers: 68.2% (KP, AP)

Color donor: 13.9% (Cu Benzoate, Cu Carbonate, CuO)

Chlorine donor: 4% (Parlon, Dechlorane)

Fuel: 13.9% (Red gum, Hexamine, Dextrin)

Binder: 12.9% (Red gum, Dextrin, Parlon)

[rogeryermaw]

Looks like a pain in the ass but I'm itching to try it...only lack the dechlorane. Any suitable substitute? Which should be used as binder as that would affect solvent choice? Curious how important the chlorine donors are as a.p. does a pretty good job of that on its own. When I get a chance to fiddle with this, I'll post video. Edited November 23, 2014 by rogeryermaw

[burningRNX]

Itchy to let it as is:

Swap the dechlorane for parlon
Swap the carbonate for CuO
Swap the red gum for hexamine
Swap the dextrin for phenolic resin

Swap 3 - 4 % KClO4 with parlon

Lower the AP amount with 1 and add a extra 1 phenolic resin, bind with acetone/alcohol 50/50 roll or pump.

Make 10 gram test batch, pump, and test star.

Blue stars are a never ending story

Edited November 23, 2014 by burningRNX

[AzoMittle]

Looks like a pain in the ass but I'm itching to try it...only lack the dechlorane. Any suitable substitute? Which should be used as binder as that would affect solvent choice? Curious how important the chlorine donors are as a.p. does a pretty good job of that on its own. When I get a chance to fiddle with this, I'll post video.

 

Which one is the binder? Yes.

 

The red gum, dextrin, and parlon all act as binders. I would use a mixture of acetone and an alcohol with a little coleman fuel or mineral spirits. This would mean the dextrin wouldn't be activated though (I believe, someone correct me otherwise) due to absence of water; I would recommend switching out the dextrin for Nitrocellulose, they will behave similar in the star formula but NC will bind better and burn cleaner (less gas/solids, oxygen neutral, little color).

 

As for chlorine donors, that's a tough one. Dechlorane is a pretty strong chlorine donor, it only makes up 1% of the comp though so changing it out shouldn't have too major of an effect, though it will have -an- effect. The best subs would probably be: Saran, HCB, parlon, in that order. Per Skylighter:

 

Ammonium Chloride 66

Chlorowax 30-70

Dechlorane 78

HCB 75

HCE 90

Lead chloride 25

Lindane 73

Mercurous chloride 15

Parlon 64-68

PVC 57

PVDC (Saran) 73

Edited November 24, 2014 by AzoMittle

[Carbon796]

The dextrin is supposed to be the binder, otherwise it wouldn't be included in the formula.

[FlaMtnBkr]

The dechlorane on the market now is a bit different and is dechlorane plus and contains less chlorine. It is actually made as some type of flame barrier but is supposed to work fairly well. I haven't tried it yet, only the original but will at some point. I would be curious to see a comparison. Saran is probably the best substitute.

 

Also, dextrin is a decent fuel and actually has a higher fuel value than lactose but about half that of red gum or phenolic. It may not hurt to just drop the dextrin if not going to use water, but it wouldn't hurt to add half it's percentage back with a different fuel to keep the oxygen balance close to the original formula.