FlaMtnBkr Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I don't have the ability to figure this out. But Luminol looks pretty neat. And it looks like it could be potentially made from something some of us have in our pyro kit - Terephthalic Acid (TPA). Does anyone think they could figure out how to make it from TPA? I think quite a few of us would be interested in making it. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogeryermaw Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 ...heating of these acids does not generally lead to cyclic anhydrides, though this conversion sometimes can be accomplished by using special techniques. Upon heating, phthalic acid readily yields phthalic anhydride (with a five-membered ring), but isophthalic and terephthalic acids do not undergo this reaction. source: http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/458421/phthalic-anhydride phthalic anhydride can be used in the preparation of luminol.terephthalic acid has carboxyl groups at the 1 and 4 position on the ring while phthalic is at 1 and 2. my access to resources is limited so i'm not sure how or if they can be adjusted. time to dig out the books... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrojig Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Interesting .... so what is this Luminol ? I have the phthalic anhydride, and you have my interest.... :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 it's one of those things you see in CSI used for finding blood residue. It's so sensitive that you can wash a surface repeatably yet it will still show blood stains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaMtnBkr Posted November 11, 2014 Author Share Posted November 11, 2014 From what I've seen it is a 2 part mix that you mix in a spray bottle and spray around and it will actually luminesce and glow in the presence of blood or, I believe more accurately, hemoglobin. The product I've seen glows a faint blue. I'm not sure how long it lasts once mixed. I originally read something about making it from plastic bottles and breaking them down to form terepthalic acid as a step in the process which plastic is about the only commercial/industrial use of TPA. Bluestar is one name brand and can actually be purchased at some hunting stores to track wounded game. Making it would be cool but as with most things, buying it is probably easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milyan720 Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 You can make luminol using this method from nurdrage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Interesting .... so what is this Luminol ? I have the phthalic anhydride, and you have my interest.... :-) This will probably be most to your interest then. You know, real scientific procedures and all. There is another prep from phthalimide as well for other interested parties. http://www.orgsyn.org/demo.aspx?prep=cv1p0408 There are plenty of preps to get from 3-nitrophthalic acid to luminol. It's a pretty common college chem lab, but most will start from this point. Not a lot will have you make a shitty impure material from gloves. There are listed preps for the dihydro phthalazinedione and luminol itself as well. http://www.orgsyn.org/demo.aspx?prep=CV3P0656http://www.orgsyn.org/demo.aspx?prep=CV3P0069 Anyway, terephthalic acid is unfortunately useless for this. It's the wrong isomer of phthalic acid. Phthalate plasticizers or o-xylene are the most OTC starting materials. Although just purchasing phthalic acid or phthalic anhydride or phthalimide are not that difficult either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogeryermaw Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 all of the articles i find relating to the isomerization of carboxylic acids use very exotic materials and processes. i'm seeing palladium catalysts and supercritical CO2 that requires very specialized equipment. like mumbles said, tpa is probably useless for this. at least in a home lab setting and even if you could do it, it wouldn't be worth the cost and weak yields to justify the trouble you'd have to go through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaMtnBkr Posted November 13, 2014 Author Share Posted November 13, 2014 Well I tried to go back and find where I thought I saw mention of TPA in the process but can't find it. It is something I read weeks or even months ago and that popped in my head when I posted. It also seems like I read about breaking down plastic bottles to get the needed chemical which made sense in my head since TPA is used almost exclusively to make plastic (PET?) bottles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrojig Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I read the same thing too ...!!!! It was on one of those lengthy pyro formulation lists right at the end. I have scoured my bookmarks and have concluded the site it was on has changed or updated... sorry I wish I had better news' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrojig Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 http://www.sciencemadness.org/member_publications/terephthalic_acid_from_PET.pdf Well I think I found what your after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaMtnBkr Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 I have seen that but what I saw was producing luminol by breaking down PET bottles. Maybe the chemical obtained wasn't Terephthalic acid and I made the connection in my head thinking TPA was a component. My memory isn't quite what it used to be after high dose chemo and years of pain control. I also think it must have been a different source because I haven't looked at an online pyro formulary in a few years. Oh well, I thought it would be neat if we could run around playing CSI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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