Pirotecnia Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 (edited) When i were living in Portugal, was easy to me to obtain Potassium nitrate. Now, i'm living in Brazil, and here is more difficult to get this magic compound! Then, i found a source of kno3, and now i need your help to purify it. The fertilizer is a composition of 32% of nitrogen and 1% of potassium oxide. The rest of the composition i think that are impurities. Have you some ideas of how can i extract pure kno3 from this? For 1 kilo of this fertilizer, how much kno3 could i get? Below, somos photos of the fertilizer called "salitre", in english, "salpeter" Thank you!! Edited October 10, 2014 by Pirotecnia 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 From those values, and a little digging, it looks like you have a mixture of sodium and potassium nitrate. Given the K2O values, it looks like it is mostly sodium nitrate. 1% K2O is about 97% NaNO3 and 3% KNO3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 By the way sodium nitrate still makes good bp, it might be a bit hygroscopic though. It is useless for anything of color other than orange (but actually, kno3 isn't really useful for color stars if you think about it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schroedinger Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 If it is sodium nitrate, just boil 84 g of it with, 74 g of pottasium chloride.The formed sodium chloride will precipate first during boiling down, take it out and you will get your kno3. But It's not very easy to tell the point when the right point is reached.Much easier (but more expensive) would be to treat the solution of sodium nitrate with pottasium oxalate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSM Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 From those values, and a little digging, it looks like you have a mixture of sodium and potassium nitrate. Given the K2O values, it looks like it is mostly sodium nitrate. 1% K2O is about 97% NaNO3 and 3% KNO3. A wikipedia search yields: "On industrial scale it is prepared by the double displacement reaction between sodium nitrate and potassium chloride. NaNO3 (aq) + KCl (aq) → NaCl (aq) + KNO3 (aq)" If you can find a source for potassium chloride, this process may allow you to make your own KNO3. The trick will be making the resulting potassium nitrate sodium free (difficult but possible; it's done industrially). WSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirotecnia Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 Thanks people! Today, i bought another box, this time with a mix of 15% Nitrogen and 14% of Potassium oxide. Can i mix the content of this box with the content of the other box and then do the procedure with the Potassium Chloride? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSM Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Thanks people!Today, i bought another box, this time with a mix of 15% Nitrogen and 14% of Potassium oxide. Can i mix the content of this box with the content of the other box and then do the procedure with the Potassium Chloride?Thanks! I don't see why not, nothing has changed besides the percentages (all the same materials are there). WSM 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirotecnia Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 Hi, Fortunately, i got a source of KNO3 almost pure. Although, this KNO3 comes with anticake aditive. Is it prejuditial to make a good Black Powder? Is there some way to remove it? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schroedinger Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Well most often atca is SiO2 with is now problem. You could get rid of it by dissolving the kno3 and filtrating, but i wouldn't do that it doesn't harm and easens the handling after some storage time 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirotecnia Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 Thanks everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeytech Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 As a caveat to this question, does anybody know a good fertilizer in the US that you can use to extract KNO3? http://www.mypixshare.net/files/img/user_uploads/displayimage.php?id=qtobj2b6x7287136734.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schroedinger Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Get stump remover, no extraction needed, buy at skylighter.com or other pyro supplier or even better find a pyro club nearby and order together with them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregh Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 (edited) Kelp4less.com is fairly cheap. I got 25lb for $37 and free shipping. https://www.kelp4less.com/shop/potassium-nitrate/ Edited October 25, 2014 by gregh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milyan720 Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 It doesnt harm to recystalise it though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSM Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Hi,Fortunately, i got a source of KNO3 almost pure. Although, this KNO3 comes with anticake aditive. Is it prejuditial to make a good Black Powder? Is there some way to remove it?Thanks! For BP or rockets, the anticake doen't matter. I'm told silicon dioxide interferes with glitter, but I haven't noticed any problems with it. If the potassium nitrate is fine enough, just use it and see how it works for you. "The proof is in the pudding" WSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrojig Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Pudding sounds good..... hhhmmm May have to try pudding stars . I too have noticed that the nitrate with anti cake is not noticeably diff . from the one w/o. Never tried the anti-cake in glitter comps. It just makes more sense to just freshly mill nitrate for glitter anyways . If your milled stored stuff is clumping just rub it through a screen . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeytech Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Hey thanks guys, appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMat Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 (edited) I get my KNO3 from Dudadiesel. $17.99 for 10 lbs. Their MSDs states 99.8% purity. They have other options, from 1 up to 50 lb bags. It is prilled, but 10 seconds in the blender and I'm go to go Edited October 5, 2018 by MadMat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drPsyx Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Hello to all from EU where rules and regulations are ridiculously strict and there s no Stump Remover or even Instant Ice Packs with Ammonium Nitrate.There is though (fairly cheap)Potassium Nitrate Fertilizer : NPK 13-0-46 And i read :13% Nitrate Ion (NO3)The molecular weight of NO3 = 62.0049The molecular weight of N = 14.006762.0049 / 14.0067 = 4.42(13*4.42=57.5% NO3) 0% Phosphorus (P)46% Potassium Oxide (K2O)The molecular weight of K2O = 94.196The molecular weight of K = 39.0983We need to see that K2O is a measure of a substance with two K for each O.So we must double the weight of K before finding the factor. 39.0983 * 2 = 78.178694.196 / 78.1786 = 1.2(46/1.2=38.3% Potassium) 57.5% + 38.3% = 95.8% Potassium Nitrate (KNO3) Does it mean that the fertilizer has 95.8% KNO3 even it needs purification ??????Thank you all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSM Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) Hello to all from EU where rules and regulations are ridiculously strict and there s no Stump Remover or even Instant Ice Packs with Ammonium Nitrate.There is though (fairly cheap)Potassium Nitrate Fertilizer : NPK 13-0-46And i read :13% Nitrate Ion (NO3)The molecular weight of NO3 = 62.0049The molecular weight of N = 14.006762.0049 / 14.0067 = 4.42(13*4.42=57.5% NO3) 0% Phosphorus (P)46% Potassium Oxide (K2O)The molecular weight of K2O = 94.196The molecular weight of K = 39.0983We need to see that K2O is a measure of a substance with two K for each O.So we must double the weight of K before finding the factor. 39.0983 * 2 = 78.178694.196 / 78.1786 = 1.2(46/1.2=38.3% Potassium)57.5% + 38.3% = 95.8% Potassium Nitrate (KNO3)Does it mean that the fertilizer has 95.8% KNO3 even it needs purification ??????Thank you all Mill the fertilizer potassium nitrate to powder and try it in rockets or whatever, and see if it works. I expect it will work well if no hydroscopic additives are mixed in. Another thing is to observe the flame of burning compositions using it; look for the telltale characteristic violet flame of potassium, which is a good indication of serviceable potassium nitrate. If there are options, I prefer the greenhouse grade (granular) over the prilled, but both will work; and should be milled before use. Good luck. WSM Edited December 10, 2020 by WSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSM Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Mill the fertilizer potassium nitrate to powder and try it in rockets or whatever, and see if it works. I expect it will work well if no hydroscopic additives are mixed in. Another thing is to observe the flame of burning compositions using it; look for the telltale characteristic violet flame of potassium, which is a good indication of serviceable potassium nitrate.If there are options, I prefer the greenhouse grade (granular) over the prilled, but both will work; and should be milled before use.Good luck. My first mixtures using fertilizer grade potassium nitrate were for rockets. The nitrate looked "fine enough" out of the bag, it was not! My rockets were inverted gerbes, without enough thrust to lift out of the rack. I learned that lesson the hard way, but my friends were entertained by the failure , till they realized the rockets had shell headers on them ! They complimented me on the color of the stars as we were running away . WSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 Back in February of this year Member Jimjones, also in Brazil, made this posting. This is the photo he provided of the Potassium Nitrate he found in Brazil which workedvery well for his Black Powder. For others who may live in areas where Potassium Nitrate is difficult to purchase, if youhave a good supply of Wood Ashes it is possible to make your own without too much effortor cost. The Wood Ashes are a source for Potassium Carbonate. Nitric Acid in low concentration can be made from Air and Water. Search result for Videos on How to Make Nitric Acid from Air The videos show a simple approach to making the Nitrogen DioxideGenerator which, while it works reasonably well, has room for improvement. Just shows how a little "ingenuity" can be put to work replicating the oldBirkeland-Eyde process. For use in a pinch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drPsyx Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 First thank you all for the replies and the info. Its a ton of it and i will need to make a lot of things clear to myself first.The good thing is that we're in lockdown in this part of the world, so there s a lot of time of reading theory. The bad thing is that we're in lockdown in this part of the world and there s no time for practice and experiments. But its always good to read and re-read theory. So,I also found 1 Kgr packages of KNO3 (3,5 euros/kgr) which are named "Potassium Nitrate TECHNICAL" in their website(dont ask me what this is, i have no idea)There s no formula on the package but there's a company name which also makes fertilizers.This package though is clearly mentioned as KNO3 chemical.It doesnt say fertilizer anywhere. Now about the fertilizers.The sure thing is that the fertilizer packages (25 kgr each) contain 3 chemicals:Nitrogen (N) - Phosphate (P2O5) - Potash (K2O)each one represented with a numberSo jimjones (the brazilian) fertilizer is : 13-2-44which means it has Phosphate in it.Now, from what I read, this is not good.I m still learning. I dont know. Thats what I read.The ones I can find here though... HAVE NOT phosphate at all.There are:13-0-46 (prills) (33 euros/25kgr)13.2-0-4613.5-0-46.2 (Greenhouse Grade) (41 euros/25kgr or 1.64 euro/kgr)this one seems to be very "clean".13.5*4.42=59.67% NO3and46.2/1.2=38.5% Potassiumso something like 98.17% of KNO3 I guess I will go for it.The point is what should i do with 25 kgr of KNO3 ?Add 7 kgr of sugar and send it to space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carbon796 Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 Get the GG, it should be table salt like consistency. The prilled usually has a small amount of clay associated with it. Part of the prilling process iirc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSM Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 First thank you all for the replies and the info. Its a ton of it and i will need to make a lot of things clear to myself first.The good thing is that we're in lockdown in this part of the world, so there s a lot of time of reading theory. The bad thing is that we're in lockdown in this part of the world and there s no time for practice and experiments. But its always good to read and re-read theory. So,I also found 1 Kgr packages of KNO3 (3,5 euros/kgr) which are named "Potassium Nitrate TECHNICAL" in their website(dont ask me what this is, i have no idea)There s no formula on the package but there's a company name which also makes fertilizers.This package though is clearly mentioned as KNO3 chemical.It doesnt say fertilizer anywhere. Now about the fertilizers.The sure thing is that the fertilizer packages (25 kgr each) contain 3 chemicals:Nitrogen (N) - Phosphate (P2O5) - Potash (K2O)each one represented with a numberSo jimjones (the brazilian) fertilizer is : 13-2-44which means it has Phosphate in it.Now, from what I read, this is not good.I m still learning. I dont know. Thats what I read.The ones I can find here though... HAVE NOT phosphate at all.There are:13-0-46 (prills) (33 euros/25kgr)13.2-0-4613.5-0-46.2 (Greenhouse Grade) (41 euros/25kgr or 1.64 euro/kgr)this one seems to be very "clean".13.5*4.42=59.67% NO3and46.2/1.2=38.5% Potassiumso something like 98.17% of KNO3 I guess I will go for it.The point is what should i do with 25 kgr of KNO3 ?Add 7 kgr of sugar and send it to space. You should always mill the fertilizer potassium nitrate to a fine powder before use. As to which one to buy; if price matters more, get the prilled, and if purity matters more, get the greenhouse grade. They both work for rockets and black powder, and both types need to be milled before use. If using it for glitter or specialty stars, perhaps the greenhouse grade will work better. When I first started using fertilizer grades of KNO3, all I had access to was the prilled. It worked fine after being ball-milled to powder. Greenhouse grade is all I have used since learning the difference, but then they cost the same here. Congratulations on sourcing saltpeter and welcome to the wonderful and exciting world of amateur pyrotechnics... WSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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