Sparx88 Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) This is partly in response to another thread on the subject of low velocity exploding targets for a fireworks show finishing with a healthy report by Wiley. This is the same flashpot I talked about in that thread, I made this a seperate thread just for the flashpot performance. It is from 1018 mild steel bar stock, 3" tall, 2 7/8" wide and a 1" through bore. It is open on both ends and have no fuse holes as it is lit from the top. This design has worked flawless. It stays right where it sits with a little hop as you can see on the 3 gram shot. The last part of the video shows it resting in the 7 gram crater. And thats another thing about this is that it does'nt leave big craters. No amount of flash can blow this up. I tried. I have been taught that to prove a device like this, cannons, mugs, they should be overloaded in remote locations ofcourse before you try to sell them or use them so you know it is safe to use. Some may say thats the wrong way to prove something like that but it's what I did (70 grams 5 times) and it worked fantastic. I have shot this more than 50 times so far ranging from 2 grams to 40 grams. I stay at 7 grams max now as it gets REAL loud real fast after 7. In this video made earlier today is the "Mr. Flashpot" I call it, demonstrating a -3 gram- and a -7 gram- charge. The pic is of the 2 charges and how I make them. Real simple, about as safe as it can be considering it's standard 70/30/3 perc/alum/sulfur. With the new low velocity exploding targets featured in Wiley's thread, I am hoping that recipe being used under the patent, will also work for a flashpot becoming even safer. Until I buy the thiourea to replace standard flash composition this is the last time I demonstrate what the flashpot can do. I am excited to develope this new formula. Anyhow, heres the current effects of Mr. Flashpot, hope you all like it. Please excuse the second shot (7 gram) for the camera falling over from the blast. flashpot_0001.wmv Edited October 6, 2014 by Sparx88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiley Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Dang, that's pretty impressive, and only 7 grams too! With this little device being as loud as it is, I wonder how people at the PGI ground salute line don't end up completely deafened. I mean, they aren't really that far away from pounds of magic dust going boom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyco_1322 Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 That's the difference between mixes that hurt your hears and mixes that don't. Many of the regulars down there have tuned their own comps for just that. You do see a good flow of thump junkies that just shake up some 7:3 and shoot it, that's the stuff that will make your ears rings, and it hurts. I see some people that have plugs in or use their fingers when suspicious stuff is being hung. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiley Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Interesting. I know that even black powder (in a cannon) can be pretty punishing, so whatever they're adding must tame the flash down quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurritoBandito Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 This is likely a stupid question, but if you're looking for a safer mix why add the sulfur at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparx88 Posted October 7, 2014 Author Share Posted October 7, 2014 No, BB, there are no stupid questions. You have more experience than I do and so I respect that. I realize now that I shouldnt have mentioned sulfur at all due to the fact that people with no experience might try it not knowing the danger. My bad. I didnt use sulfur until the last 6 times of the 3 and 7 gram loads where it was beneficial due to the length of the bore. Sulfur improved the overall performance, speeding the reaction to have as much of the charge react as possible before exiting the open ended bore. After 10 grams there was no real improvement to justify using the sulfur in anything more than 7 grams. Plus being a perchlorate, i'ts not as dangerous as chlorate and sulfur. I know you know this. The sulfur is not needed at all. 70/30 is perfectly fine, using sulfur was just me trying to squeeze out every last bit of performance. For anyone reading this and are new to it, the gains are not worth the risk. In fact, I'll do a back to back video comparison of with and without sulfur in the 3 gram charge in a couple days to show that. --Thank you-- BB for pointing that out. I'll be more careful in the future about these sorts of issues with chem use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Sulfur is not at all uncommon in flash, if you understand the risk with increasing the sensitivity and can accept that, then be careful but use it if it serves your purposes. That said, I am not a fan of a double open flashpot, that introduces an incredible missile hazard to anyone close. Imagine setting it on the ground and having a .30 caliber rock leaving the space below at 2000 FPS. I suggest having it plugged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurritoBandito Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Also, I think having the bottom plugged may provide better confinement allowing less flash to get the same report. This is pure speculation though. I'm not sure how much gain you'd really receive from it volumewise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparx88 Posted October 7, 2014 Author Share Posted October 7, 2014 I considered the risk of rocks and debris from underneath being a possible hazard. I normally set it on thick grass or sand. Plus it serves well to make sure there's nothing around it that could fly far. I knew that where I used it this time was clear of rocks and such because it's where I shot it in the past. The best place I think is in one of my horseshoe pits, thats what I do during the holidays. Pure playground sand plus surround by a 6ft box of treated 2x10's. Regulation size pits. Stops runaway 2 1/2 pound steel shoes (california flips). I suppose I could just make another the same dimensions except 1 1/2" taller still a 3" bore. I used to have a small flashpot that was a 3/4" bore in 2" round 1018 2" deep 2 3/4 tall". It was pretty good. Once you got to 4 grams it was downhill from there just creating more flash and smoke than noise. But this open ended style far exceeds in magnitude using small amounts of powder and gives a lower tone. Besides, I don't like being anywhere near stuff like this. Loong fuse, plenty of time to get to where you want to be and wait for it. Thats my style. Even with cannons, I'm behind something cringing, waiting.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparx88 Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 (edited) This is no more dangerous than exploding targets, ground salutes, guns, or shells and rockets. Think about it. All those other devices can blow up in your hand anytime it wants. Or in the box you have them all laying in. Or in your tent next to all the other stuff and people. Just puting the flash into a tube can have unwanted outcomes. Making flash itself can mis behave. I have considered any dangers that could be associated with this flash pot. And because I took my time doing this I feel this is a superior method of creating the effect. Even the way I package the charge, if lit in the open they just floof into a ball of smoke. I will go so far as to say flash pots are the safest of all these. And doing it this particular way is safest yet. So all those out there wanting this, like I do it, go for it . It's nothing new. Just improved. Oh almost forgot, it's -also- the most economical and efficient way to create the effect. Thats my story, and I'm stickin to it Sometimes we need to just lighten up on the stoic serious professional vibe and try to keep it fun and interesting as well. Please don't take this the wrong way. If you really believe in something you have to be willing to stick up for it and protect it. Edited October 9, 2014 by Sparx88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurritoBandito Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Where is this coming from Sparx? I'm not sure I'd I agree with your safety comparisons, but you seem to have your mind made up. I'll refrain from further suggestions if you wish. Please be careful and stay safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiley Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Ah, now I see that the bore goes all the way through. I'm curious as to why you chose to make it this way, rather than with a closed bottom as with a more traditional thundermug. I know the Pyrocreations people put flash in their cannons which all have closed bottoms. The biggest one has been shot with as much as 40g and held up ok, but it doesn't seem like the best idea, especially considering that they are made from 1144 alloy steel, which is pretty hard stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparx88 Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 (edited) Where is this coming from Sparx? I'm not sure I'd I agree with your safety comparisons, but you seem to have your mind made up. I'll refrain from further suggestions if you wish. Please be careful and stay safe.Please don't take it like that, I'm not the best at expressing myself sometimes. I have a foot in mouth habit. It's one of my gremlins that just does'nt seem to go away. I did not mean to come off like that. I absolutly want and need your advice and freindship as well as everyones here. I get excited about something and overreact whether good or bad. I'll try and keep a lid on it in the future, sorry. Forgive Me? Wiley, the idea behind the through bore was to create a fail proof/shatter proof design provided the user uses only standard flash powder compositions. So far so good. I had it completely filled with almost 70 grams with the hottest flash comp I know 5 times in a row within 30 minutes during it's initial stress testing. Allowing for heat buildup to simulate the most extreme condition it can be fired with flash. Using it on sand was the safest way and lowered the tone a bit further. The performance was better than closed bores. Well, volume, tone and efficiency anyway. I want to make a couple in stainless, one like this one and one with a closed bore. I guess then the actuall side by side comparisons can be made. I'm very interested in how that will turn out. I'll have them done before x-mas. Edited October 9, 2014 by Sparx88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiley Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Is the through bore meant to be a safety mechanism to preserve the integrity of the device itself, or is it something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurritoBandito Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Sparx, I never had any hard feelings. Just didn't want to step on your toes. No worries buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparx88 Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 (edited) Oh and the length and thickness of the bore is important. With cannons it seems that the rule of thumb is 1 calibre in all directions minimum. For these I go with 1 1/2 to 2 calibres in all directions minumum. And for a 1" bore no more than 3" bore depth. With these 1" dimensions the flash will never be able to generate enough pressure to hurt it. I want to be able to "set it and forget it" The only problem I have with the 1018 steel is you have to keep it coated, paint, powder coat etc. Rust. I have a thick layer of primer and use reg cheap black paint. Some paint chips off when used I just clean it and spray it again. 301 Stainless will be nice when polished If I were to start selling these I would offer it up with closed bores. If one would like to they can drill it the rest of the way if they wanted one like I use. It does seem smarter to have a closed bore and for the general public, I think that would be a better choice considering some of the crap we see people doing. Edited October 9, 2014 by Sparx88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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