Cc2014 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Hello, I am looking to get into pyrotechnics and I was just wondering what type of motor I should get for my ball mill? What rpm for direct drive? Also, would I be able to wire the motor directly to my mains (230v AC)? I prefer to make things myself when possible, it's more fun that way so I was going to make a ball mill to make my own aluminium powder and ground down charcoal. I am not sure of the jar size, I was thinking 1 liter but recomendations for that would also be greatly appreciated (This is only a starter mill, so nothing too big) I would prefer a direct drive system, so a motor suitable for such would be best. (Sorry if this is the incorrect sub forum for this) Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 TEFC (totally enclosed, fan cooled, explosion proof would be best... I very much doubt you will be able to do a direct drive motor, 230V AC? What country? Look for a 'gear motor' at a surplus center near you for one but be aware, they can get pricey! In the USA, I would look at THIS ONE on eBay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrB Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Not to mention that a direct drive setup while being compact, also leaves absolutely no room for changing the rpm of the jar. At 90 rpm your looking at something like a 100mm jar.What i personally dream of is a DC motor, 12-24v something so i could adjust the speed on the fly. Sadly, it seams unit such as that cost an arm and a leg, and i'd rather save those for the accident thats waiting to happen... Joking aside, i cant help but feel a DC motor would cover a lot of the issues when trying to figure out how to reach a certain RPM.B! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cc2014 Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) TEFC (totally enclosed, fan cooled, explosion proof would be best... I very much doubt you will be able to do a direct drive motor, 230V AC? What country? Look for a 'gear motor' at a surplus center near you for one but be aware, they can get pricey! In the USA, I would look at THIS ONE on eBay.Not to mention that a direct drive setup while being compact, also leaves absolutely no room for changing the rpm of the jar. At 90 rpm your looking at something like a 100mm jar.What i personally dream of is a DC motor, 12-24v something so i could adjust the speed on the fly. Sadly, it seams unit such as that cost an arm and a leg, and i'd rather save those for the accident thats waiting to happen... Joking aside, i cant help but feel a DC motor would cover a lot of the issues when trying to figure out how to reach a certain RPM.B!To be honest I think a TEFC is out of my price range until I figure out if I really like pyrotechnics enough to sink that kind of money into it. I live in Ireland, and a quick google says that the Irish mains are 230v AC. Are there any designs that you can recommend to me? Any cheaper motors? Thanks for the response. Edited October 3, 2014 by Cc2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) Not to mention that a direct drive setup while being compact, also leaves absolutely no room for changing the rpm of the jar. At 90 rpm your looking at something like a 100mm jar.What i personally dream of is a DC motor, 12-24v something so i could adjust the speed on the fly. Sadly, it seams unit such as that cost an arm and a leg, and i'd rather save those for the accident thats waiting to happen... Joking aside, i cant help but feel a DC motor would cover a lot of the issues when trying to figure out how to reach a certain RPM.B! Sadly, a DC motor has a commentator, stater and the dreaded brushes! A TEFC DC motor is really expensive and a TEFC DC Gear Motor... FORGETABOUTIT! Brusless DC motors are usually pretty tiny and have high speeds. Can you afford 3rd degree burns? Then you can indeed afford a TEFC motor. Look on eBay in Ireland, pulleys or gear reducer are your best bet. BTW- you can use a Variac to reduce the motor speed, a digital veritable frequency drive is even better. Run the motor at 50% with no extra heat. Edited October 3, 2014 by dagabu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cc2014 Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 Right now on ebay the cheapest tefc I can find is 120 euro including shipping, the equivalent of 150 US dollars. I was wondering if an electric motor from a corded drill would work? It's already set up to work off mains, so that's one less job to do. Universal motors are typically used in drills, and from what I've seen contain no exposed wiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogeryermaw Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 for about 5 minutes... seriously. not entirely true i guess as they will work for a while if you only turn a very low amount of weight but then you get no efficiency in terms of the quantity of powder you can turn out and in milling time. i was able to turn maybe 5 or 6 pounds of lead with a drill motor and it got pretty warm. increasing the weight burned it out in minutes. also, drill motors spark like crazy. something you do not want anywhere near flammable chems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Right now on ebay the cheapest tefc I can find is 120 euro including shipping, the equivalent of 150 US dollars. I was wondering if an electric motor from a corded drill would work? It's already set up to work off mains, so that's one less job to do. Universal motors are typically used in drills, and from what I've seen contain no exposed wiring. In a word..., No. Drills of any kind have an open case for air movement and sparks!! You can ignore me all you want but after a month in a coma and countless surgeries (my last one was two weeks ago), I am the resident authority on pyrotechnic burns, use an open motor and it will light up energetic materials if the dust get into the motor. And trust me, you CANNOT get out of the way of a fire when it starts, we are just not wired that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cc2014 Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) Alright, I will keep an eye out for a suitable TEFC then. Sorry to hear about your injuries, hope you're feeling better now! Thanks to everyone for the help Edited October 3, 2014 by Cc2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schroedinger Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 If you just want to get started and figure out if this is the right hobby, maybe you are better of by getting a small rock tumbler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 One additional advantage to using a motor that you reduce in speed to a suitable level is that you gain torque in the process. You may be able to find a suitable motor from industrial surplus. While hand drill motors tend to be unsuitable, drill press motors are often ideal. They're built for continuous duty in a dusty environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cc2014 Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 For now I think I will buy a ball mill until I come across a suitable motor. What size would you recommend for a beginner? I plan on making firecrackers and some small rockets. I doubt I will be making shells any time soon, I need to get a lot more experience first. Would a 3lb mill suffice? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobosan Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 3lb mill would work but look at the 6lb also. A full load of lead media and chem charge in one drum and the 6lb mill will do just fine for small quantities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 TEFC motor and pulleys is the way to go. If you need a gearmotor, you`ll find wheelchair motors fairly cheap secondhand. I use a 24v jobbie with a worm drive gearbox (34:1) on a variable 0-15v dc 12 amp supply for various stuff (not ballmill). It will run from about 2v upwards and draws no more than 5 amp under heavy loading. No shortage of torque, its impossible to stop by hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurritoBandito Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Cc2014, I second Bobosan on the 6# HF tumbler. I got mine for less than 60 bucks and used it for years. There are some complaints about the belts snapping to easily, but it hasn't been much of an issue for me. Please don't cheap out on the motor or media. The last thing you want is your mill exploding, and the "it'll never happen to me" mentality is a dangerous one to have. It can and will happen if you don't follow the rules. It's not a matter of if but a matter of when. Another area not to skimp on is PPE. Pyrotechnics can be a very fun and rewarding hobby, but it can also change your life in the blink of an eye. Safety should always come before frugality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Alright, I will keep an eye out for a suitable TEFC then. Sorry to hear about your injuries, hope you're feeling better now! Thanks to everyone for the help To be blunt: No, I will NEVER return to what I looked like, my face was burned off and replaced. I feel wonderful in my mind and spirit but the body will never come back, it is and will always will be wrecked. That's why I am adamant about you using a motor that will not spark with dust in the air. I am not being unreasonable here, save you money, wait some time, get a side job, do what it takes to be safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 One additional advantage to using a motor that you reduce in speed to a suitable level is that you gain torque in the process. You may be able to find a suitable motor from industrial surplus. While hand drill motors tend to be unsuitable, drill press motors are often ideal. They're built for continuous duty in a dusty environment. AND they usually come with a pulley box for speed changes!! Great idea MUM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle66 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 For an answer about what kind of ball mill motor, I would recommend reading my post" My Ball Mill": http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/9897-my-ball-mill/ I cover motor selection and some design ideas. It works pretty good for me, and the motor is a 110/220. I'm new at pyro, but not at fabricating tools. I'm too frugal (some say cheap) to buy something when I could build it myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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