potassium chlorate cell?

[PortuguesePyro]

HI, i wanted to make a potassium chlorate cell but i cant get mmo anode :,( (i cant get it online).

 

So i wonder if i could use titanium rod (which i can get easily) as my anode and stainless steel as my cathode?

 

Thank you

 

ps; sorry my english

 

[schroedinger]

No, it will passivate. Ether coat the ti with mno2 or use graphite

[Milyan720]

Ive tried graphite pencils but they break down quickly(a day)

Carbon rods from heavy duty batteries are better than graphite but will still pasivate

[bikemaster]

Carbon rods from heavy duty batteries are better than graphite but will still pasivate

Yes it will passivate by forming a nasty oxide layer

 

On the serious side, you can easily find MMO anode on Ebay : http://www.ebay.com/itm/MMO-coated-expanded-titanium-mesh-anode-3-x-6-/331330291373?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d24d306ad

 

Or at pyro supply store : http://www.americanpyrosupply.com/Products-ANODES_CATHODES_1.html

 

If you really can't get it online, you can always go at a pool store and look for electrolysis salt systems. These electrodes can be used for your chlorate cell without any problem!

 

Good luck!

[schroedinger]

What the heck? Your graphite is passivating? I don't know how you achive that, but if you oxidize graphite you get CO2 which is a gas. But you are right graphite from pencils or common batteries are breaking down quite fast.

 

For a cell you wan't proper graphite plates, which are suited for making anodes.

 

On the other hand we got a thread about 170 pages long on these cells, much information on it.

[Milyan720]

The graphite is from a solid rod of graphite used for drawing stuff

 

After a day of 5v @1.5A the thing just broke apart into pieces

 

I was making sodium chlorate because my potassium chloride hadnt come in yet

[schroedinger]

Yes that is normal. The graphite rod you used is for drawing not designed for use as anode. Graphite for drawing is much less compressed than the stuff youu need.

I started with graphite rods and made serveral kgs of xhlorate with tzem with way to high current density and my anodes would still makes more kg if i hadn't first switched over to mno2 and then to mmo

Edited October 3, 2014 by schroedinger

[Mumbles]

If you're looking for graphite rods for this, welding rods tend to be the best OTC source. They're not as good as the real deal electrodes, but they'll be significantly better than some of the other ones.

[dagabu]

How about these?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HM6-Graphite-Electrode-Carbon-Block-Mold-Pattern-Glass-Blow-14-2x6-5x2cm/131191004416?_trksid=p2045573.c100034.m2102&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D26215%26meid%3D506058291c18412db9d17efa93f80ce0%26pid%3D100034%26prg%3D10926%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D261520571480

[VaterAraignee]

I think it prudent to point out hat pencil cores are for the most part "not" graphite but a combination of graphite and a binder (typically clay) and the ratio of the two determines the hardness of the core. The softer the core, the higher the graphite content and darker the mark. An American #2 (HB to most of the world) is of medium hardness.

As a welder I can say CAW rods ounce per ounce can be a bit pricy, you get way less for a higher price.

Having no clue about about electrolysis chlorate production I would still have to assume a carbon block electrode would be superior.

 

Now I have a question. What about thoriated tungsten electrodes?

[taiwanluthiers]

For chlorate production nothing beats MMO. It's pretty much a set and forget anode.

 

You can easily buy MMO on ebay, or look for pool chlorinator anodes from pool supply shops.

[VaterAraignee]

But if thoriated tungsten works and can be acquired cheaper or even free.....?

[patsroom]

Some things work some don't. If you look hard enough on the web you will find a few lists that will tell what will and will not work. Not only that but if you were to research this forum alone you would find a weath of information that would answer so many of your questions that you could spend you time learning how to do it right. All you have to do is look in the right topics and the infor is there. Just dig alittle deeper and your there ...............Pat

[taiwanluthiers]

Look, MMO anode and Ti cathode works for chlorate production. You really can't get anything better than this. A single anode will produce tons and tons of chlorate and not show any sign of wear, you won't need to clean the crud out of the solution at the end of the run (you would have to with graphite). I made a run, and produced way more chlorate than I could possibly use in a month. All I needed was a computer power supply and a cell and that was it.

 

I don't know why you can't get MMO. Ebay has it, it's not exactly hard to get. If you can't buy from ebay for whatever reason (I do not think customs will seize MMO anodes) then you can try pool supply places that will have saltwater chlorinator that contains MMO. If you are under 18 or 21 and can't buy chlorate from the usual channel, then I'd stop. Chlorate isn't something recommended for beginners because they have incompatibilities.

[PortuguesePyro]

Hi,

 

thanks for the fast answers, but i really cant get mmo online (and i couldnt find in pool stores :\)

 

So i think i will get some graphite rods and i can use stainless steel cathode right?

and i can use plastic for my cell? (or ill get too foggy?)

 

 

another question: i need the chlorate to smoke, i know i can make smoke with potassium chlorate and sodium chlorate but which is better?

 

Thank you all

 

ps: im 19 taiwanluthiers

Edited October 5, 2014 by PortuguesePyro

[taiwanluthiers]

Check this out: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MMO-Anode-Titananode-/261606578623?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item3ce8f799bf

 

It is in the EU so it won't go through customs, it is from Germany. I'm not sure why you can't order online... I am sure he can accept EC cards or you can paypal him with your EC account. It's really cheap for how well it works. Trust me when I say that MMO works, you can practically make a ton of chlorate with it and the anode will basically look the same.

 

Graphite and stainless cathode works but the graphite will erode. You will have a black mess that you will then have to filter out, which is not the easiest thing to do because cell liquor is very caustic and will eat any organic substance. You'll need fiberglass based filter. Pencil graphite will not work, dry cell battery rod works but only for a short time. Gouging rods work better, but you need lab grade graphite anode for it to erode less, but lab grade graphite is harder to find, might as well get MMO.

 

For cell container PP works for me, it has not eroded at all. PVC works the best up to 60 degrees, PVDF works better for higher temperature.

Edited October 5, 2014 by taiwanluthiers

[Milyan720]

Use carbon anodes if you just making small amounts (less than 100grams)

 

Once you have finished electrolysis pour everything into beaker, boil to dissolve all crystals and/or add water, filter solution then boil the water off and you should end up with chlorate (likely to have chloride in it)

 

If you plan to make potassium chlorate boil about %80 of water and cool it. Collect the crystals and wash with ice cold water

 

Ive only made sodium chlorate with carbon electrodes so i had to boil and filter it

[schroedinger]

No worries the carbon anodes are even suited for direct making of KClO3 from KCl in bigger ammounts then 100g, the process stays the same, most times it is just not done, because it is much easier if you don't have to remove the graphite from the solution.

[Milyan720]

Is dissolving all the chlorate and filtering the solution the best way to get rid of the carbon?